Comments on: Separatism and Empire Building in the 21st Century http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:56:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: dmag http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-25478 dmag Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:00:25 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-25478 You conveniently leave the Serbs out of the equation when talking about ex Yugoslavia...not to mention that everything you wrote about it is false, as bozhidar has already said. Yes, there probably was some divide et impera at work...but you underestimate Serb hegemony and ots role (both in the first Yugoslavia and the second). You conveniently leave the Serbs out of the equation when talking about ex Yugoslavia…not to mention that everything you wrote about it is false, as bozhidar has already said. Yes, there probably was some divide et impera at work…but you underestimate Serb hegemony and ots role (both in the first Yugoslavia and the second).

]]> By: bozhidar balkas http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21910 bozhidar balkas Tue, 10 Jun 2008 13:39:51 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21910 in canada, ashkenazic people r or appear to be more proportionately influential on econo-political level than any other hyphenated people. and, folks, they aren't even politically separatist. canada may have not been so strongly antipalestinian if it wasn't a christian land and didn't have so many zionists propagating mostly lies, hatred, intolerance against so many of us. christians also r not politically separatists. but they like judaists/zionists r extremely separatist. u may hear priestly admonition to their intellectual serfs, BE with them but not of them. now, to me , that's an afront. thanx in canada, ashkenazic people r or appear to be more proportionately influential on econo-political level than any other hyphenated people.
and, folks, they aren’t even politically separatist. canada may have not been so strongly antipalestinian if it wasn’t a christian land and didn’t have so many zionists propagating mostly lies, hatred, intolerance against so many of us.
christians also r not politically separatists. but they like judaists/zionists r extremely separatist.
u may hear priestly admonition to their intellectual serfs, BE with them but not of them. now, to me , that’s an afront. thanx

]]> By: Max Shields http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21905 Max Shields Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:30:01 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21905 Natural sessation is just that. Bioregions should move toward breaking off. BUT, the first to really consider that needs to be the USA. This land mass with it's 300 million residence, and the obvious economic and cultural distinctions make the US a kind of Soviet Union. Empire expansionism built this hodge-podge. The Civil war was all about empire - separating from it and holding on to it at any cost. Obviously, using sessation as a means to topple a government is typical MO for USA Empire Incorporated. But separatism, when it is not hegemonic or political driven is a natural and healthy direction. Natural sessation is just that. Bioregions should move toward breaking off.

BUT, the first to really consider that needs to be the USA. This land mass with it’s 300 million residence, and the obvious economic and cultural distinctions make the US a kind of Soviet Union. Empire expansionism built this hodge-podge. The Civil war was all about empire - separating from it and holding on to it at any cost.

Obviously, using sessation as a means to topple a government is typical MO for USA Empire Incorporated. But separatism, when it is not hegemonic or political driven is a natural and healthy direction.

]]> By: Lijandra http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21903 Lijandra Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:20:18 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21903 I grew up in Lithuania and was graduating from high school when the USSR fell apart. Having now spent a good number of years in the US, I have to say that the social system the Soviets put in place had its merits. For example, the public education through high school level was definitely vastly superior to that of the US. However, I take offense at the trivialization of the "national identity" movements. By separating from the Soviet Union, Lithuania was not trying to get rid of the social safety net, but get rid of the illegal Soviet occupation (in 1939 and then again at the end of World War II). Lithuania did not join the Soviet Union of its own free will, even though the Soviets claimed so until the archives revealed the German-Soviet Nonaggression Pact and its Secret Additional Protocol of August 1939 which gave the Baltic States to the USSR. I grew up in Lithuania and was graduating from high school when the USSR fell apart. Having now spent a good number of years in the US, I have to say that the social system the Soviets put in place had its merits. For example, the public education through high school level was definitely vastly superior to that of the US.

However, I take offense at the trivialization of the “national identity” movements. By separating from the Soviet Union, Lithuania was not trying to get rid of the social safety net, but get rid of the illegal Soviet occupation (in 1939 and then again at the end of World War II).
Lithuania did not join the Soviet Union of its own free will, even though the Soviets claimed so until the archives revealed the German-Soviet Nonaggression Pact and its Secret Additional Protocol of August 1939 which gave the Baltic States to the USSR.

]]> By: Giorgio http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21900 Giorgio Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:13:09 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21900 What a mouthful! After reading this the more I like and admire Ron Paul... As for Pelosi getting her marching orders from Israel does not surprise me the least bit! There is no denying that Israel has got America firmly by its shorts and curlies (i.e. by its balls). Some writers have called it the tail that wags the dog. Others have more pointedly compared Israel to the cuckoo. "It makes nice cooing sounds in the forests and then deposits its eggs in sparrows nests and eventually drives out the sparrows chicks. The mother sparrow will exhaust herself feeding the demands of the cuckoo in its nest - a parasite that it doesn´t recognize as an alien in its midst. The parasite eventually gains control not only of the nest, but also of the mother sparrow that frantically seeks to feed the parasite..." (1) ...and so, likewise, has Israel, the cuckoo, gained control of America, the sparrow. (1) US Aid to Israel, Feeding the Cuckoo by Paul de Rooij in Counterpunch.org What a mouthful!
After reading this the more I like and admire Ron Paul…

As for Pelosi getting her marching orders from Israel does not surprise me the least bit!

There is no denying that Israel has got
America firmly by its shorts and curlies (i.e. by its
balls). Some writers have called it the tail that wags
the dog. Others have more pointedly compared Israel to
the cuckoo.
“It makes nice cooing sounds in the
forests and then deposits its eggs in sparrows nests
and eventually drives out the sparrows chicks. The
mother sparrow will exhaust herself feeding the
demands of the cuckoo in its nest - a parasite that it
doesn´t recognize as an alien in its midst. The
parasite eventually gains control not only of the
nest, but also of the mother sparrow that frantically
seeks to feed the parasite…” (1)
…and so, likewise, has Israel, the cuckoo,
gained control of America, the sparrow.

(1) US Aid to Israel, Feeding the Cuckoo
by Paul de Rooij
in Counterpunch.org

]]> By: hp http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21896 hp Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:44:53 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21896 Here's Ron Paul telling it like it is about Pelosi following orders from, you guessed it, Israel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWLBhgTQ46o# Here’s Ron Paul telling it like it is about Pelosi following orders from, you guessed it, Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWLBhgTQ46o#

]]> By: hp http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21892 hp Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:52:05 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21892 Here's Jimmy Carter. You may not like him, but we all know he's no liar, no traitor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBuua8z_jFc# Here’s Jimmy Carter. You may not like him, but we all know he’s no liar, no traitor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBuua8z_jFc#

]]> By: hp http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21890 hp Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:50:26 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21890 Zionism should be made illegal, like the Nazis. There's not a dimes worth of difference between them. And as for screaming about the differences, the enormity of victims of the Nazis as compared to the Zionists, I can only say, just wait. If these miscreants aren't reined in and eliminated soon, well, I don't recall the Nazis using nuclear weapons but I can easily see these demonic bastards doing just that. And more. All the Zionists, Jews and Christians alike, should be arrested and tried for their crimes against humanity as well as treasonous aiding and abetting. All aid to Israel, the Zionist state, should be eliminated and an embargo imposed until their own citizens demand a true democracy, not the phony baloney apartheid state criminal syndicate they have now. No AIPAC, no billions sent from here to there through "private" donations, no nothing. Then, perhaps, the human race may at least begin to make some sense of each other. Actually talk about something besides death and destruction. As it is, with these bastards we're all screwed. And they're just gearing up. And we all know it. Zionism should be made illegal, like the Nazis. There’s not a dimes worth of difference between them.
And as for screaming about the differences, the enormity of victims of the Nazis as compared to the Zionists, I can only say, just wait. If these miscreants aren’t reined in and eliminated soon, well, I don’t recall the Nazis using nuclear weapons but I can easily see these demonic bastards doing just that. And more.
All the Zionists, Jews and Christians alike, should be arrested and tried for their crimes against humanity as well as treasonous aiding and abetting.
All aid to Israel, the Zionist state, should be eliminated and an embargo imposed until their own citizens demand a true democracy, not the phony baloney apartheid state criminal syndicate they have now.
No AIPAC, no billions sent from here to there through “private” donations, no nothing.
Then, perhaps, the human race may at least begin to make some sense of each other. Actually talk about something besides death and destruction. As it is, with these bastards we’re all screwed.
And they’re just gearing up.
And we all know it.

]]> By: Shabnam http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21884 Shabnam Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:52:13 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21884 Thank you Professor Petras for your article on subject of “divide and conquer” where is at play in the Middle East for the vicious goal of Zionism and imperialism. I don’t understand why people are so blind to what is happening in front of our eyes that makes them unable to see the facts on the ground. Whoever is denying the game which is at play in Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan and many other palaces should look again. Zionist’s plan for “the greater Israel” is to divide the Middle Eastern countries into many non-Arabs states to construct “allies” against Arabs and Iranians. Israel is working with the Kurds and the Azeri for many years now. Iran with thousand years of civilization consists of many ethnic groups. Kurds, Azeri, Baloch, Persian and others who are part of Iran for thousand of years. The Zionists and now Americans and British are working with the Kurds, Baloch, Azeri and Ahwazi giving them military training, and using these terrorist groups especially the Kurds, Ahwazi, and Balochi to carry out terrorist activities in the provinces of Kurdistan, Khuzistan, Balochistan and Sistan to destabilize the country. The Kurds who were used fully in the invasion of Iraq in 2003 are promised by the Zionists a separate state. That’s why we witness pro Israel groups advocating for independent state of Kurdistan on TV and other media. The designer of this vicious act is Leslie Gelb, pro Israel from the Council On Foreign Relations. This is in the interest of Israel. Noam Chomsky has always supported the Kurds and has never exposed their role as spies for Israel. The kurds are playing a destructive role in the region and are considered by many as “another Israel.” Kurds are used now to attack Iran on its border to escalate the tension into full scale war and according to PEJAk, a branch of PKK, a terrorist group’s latest news announcement they took responsibility for the bombing in the west of Tehran on May 29, 2008. Israel is working with the Kurds for the past 50 years and has used them to spy on Iraq. Israel built a hospital in early 1960’s in north of Iraq and placed Mosad pose as doctors. Martin Indyke, a Zionist pro Israel in Clinton administration, the most pro Zionist administration ever in the history of the presidency, designed the dual containment policy against Iran and Iraq where killed more than 650,000 Iraqi, many of them children, and divided the country through establishment of the “no fly zone” for further action. The necons , majorities were Zionists, completed Indyke’s plan by invasion and created a soft division in Iraq through a Zionist resolution brought by puppet of Israel, Joseph Biden. They have similar plan for Iran where Israel wants to use American power to divide Iran into many mini states as puppet states which I am sure Israel and her supporters, overt or crypto Zionists and their puppets take this wish into their graves. Iranians are not fools.This treasonous plan is accompanied by work of the “NGO” who are considered enablers and are encouraged by financial support, “rewards” and professional training abroad mainly in the Arab puppet state, Qatar, where is replacing little by little Saudi Arabia in terms of the its cooperation with the empire and the Zionist state because the Saudis’ support to cover the empire’s crime is not as strong as in the past. Qatar secretly cooperated with the empire in the invasion of Iraq. Sometimes these “NGOs” are granted VISA to the west under the cover of “education” to use them in different universities in the US to brain wash both students and faculties , to appear on “voice of America” to send a signal to Iran that your destabilizing work will be rewarded and the “American Dream” will be reached. We say “good luck.” Mr. Petras if another country with the same resources does the same to the US, forget about Israel, America will be divided in no time into many mini states through ciaos and “divide and conquare.” Thank you Professor Petras for your article on subject of “divide and conquer” where is at play in the Middle East for the vicious goal of Zionism and imperialism.
I don’t understand why people are so blind to what is happening in front of our eyes that makes them unable to see the facts on the ground. Whoever is denying the game which is at play in Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan and many other palaces should look again.
Zionist’s plan for “the greater Israel” is to divide the Middle Eastern countries into many non-Arabs states to construct “allies” against Arabs and Iranians. Israel is working with the Kurds and the Azeri for many years now. Iran with thousand years of civilization consists of many ethnic groups. Kurds, Azeri, Baloch, Persian and others who are part of Iran for thousand of years. The Zionists and now Americans and British are working with the Kurds, Baloch, Azeri and Ahwazi giving them military training, and using these terrorist groups especially the Kurds, Ahwazi, and Balochi to carry out terrorist activities in the provinces of Kurdistan, Khuzistan, Balochistan and Sistan to destabilize the country. The Kurds who were used fully in the invasion of Iraq in 2003 are promised by the Zionists a separate state. That’s why we witness pro Israel groups advocating for independent state of Kurdistan on TV and other media. The designer of this vicious act is Leslie Gelb, pro Israel from the Council On Foreign Relations. This is in the interest of Israel. Noam Chomsky has always supported the Kurds and has never exposed their role as spies for Israel. The kurds are playing a destructive role in the region and are considered by many as “another Israel.” Kurds are used now to attack Iran on its border to escalate the tension into full scale war and according to PEJAk, a branch of PKK, a terrorist group’s latest news announcement they took responsibility for the bombing in the west of Tehran on May 29, 2008.
Israel is working with the Kurds for the past 50 years and has used them to spy on Iraq. Israel built a hospital in early 1960’s in north of Iraq and placed Mosad pose as doctors. Martin Indyke, a Zionist pro Israel in Clinton administration, the most pro Zionist administration ever in the history of the presidency, designed the dual containment policy against Iran and Iraq where killed more than 650,000 Iraqi, many of them children, and divided the country through establishment of the “no fly zone” for further action. The necons , majorities were Zionists, completed Indyke’s plan by invasion and created a soft division in Iraq through a Zionist resolution brought by puppet of Israel, Joseph Biden. They have similar plan for Iran where Israel wants to use American power to divide Iran into many mini states as puppet states which I am sure Israel and her supporters, overt or crypto Zionists and their puppets take this wish into their graves. Iranians are not fools.This treasonous plan is accompanied by work of the “NGO” who are considered enablers and are encouraged by financial support, “rewards” and professional training abroad mainly in the Arab puppet state, Qatar, where is replacing little by little Saudi Arabia in terms of the its cooperation with the empire and the Zionist state because the Saudis’ support to cover the empire’s crime is not as strong as in the past. Qatar secretly cooperated with the empire in the invasion of Iraq. Sometimes these “NGOs” are granted VISA to the west under the cover of “education” to use them in different
universities in the US to brain wash both students and faculties , to appear on “voice of America” to send a signal to Iran that your destabilizing work will be rewarded and the “American Dream” will be reached. We say “good luck.”
Mr. Petras if another country with the same resources does the same to the US, forget about Israel, America will be divided in no time into many mini states through ciaos and “divide and conquare.”

]]> By: dan e http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21883 dan e Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:12:05 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21883 b balkas is in general correct: oversimplification of complex, "overdetermined" events/processes does not help people understand them. I wd say to Dr Petras. & will if I get a moment, that it distresses me a great deal that his gross oversimplification of the processes in Tibet as well as in the former Yugoslavia will undermine broader reception of his carefully researched and thought-out work on the "Power of Izzy in the US", re Latin America & Caribbean region, and much of his work on Imperialism as a System. In my view, the failure of "Marxism-Leninism" in both areas points up fundamental weaknesses both of application and in Lenin's interpretation of Marx's work. Which does not mean that orthodox Leninism has no merit whatsoever; in most situations it would have to be preferred to any pro-Capitalist ideology or state. However I can't remember or imagine anything worse than the Pol Pot regime, capitalist, feudal, whatever. Which was based on a version of "Marchus-Lemmingism", on an interpretation of "Mao-tse-tung Thought", I think it was called before the current gang of thugs took over? Apparently Dr Petras wants us to think the heirs of Deng Xiao Bing currently installed in Beijing are "the Good Guys"? Who are somehow preferable to the US/Izzy power config? On the basis "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? Which may hold true in the millenial abstract, but when said "friend" has his foot on your neck, a rifle pointed at your head, where then is the "principle contradiction"? Well, I've had a standing order with Clarity Books to send me half a dozen copies of Petras' next book soon as it's published this August -- but now I'm going to cancel it, at least put it on hold until I read the book. Maybe he'll clarify his ideas about China/Tibet, and re the post-Tito "leaders" of the Yugo CP, whose greed them to start promoting Serbian nationalism which naturally led to popular acceptance of Croatian & other nationalisms. Which description is itself an oversimplification, but it's part of the story, which is only obfuscated by trying to cram it all into the parameters of a "Marxist-Leninist" catechism ala the so-called "Party of Socialist Liberation" & similar outfits. Nothing I say should be interpreted as supporting anything said by this "Michael Kenny" character who is best totally ignored. I know, hard to ignore a rat in the room, but in this case it's probably the best course:) b balkas is in general correct: oversimplification of complex, “overdetermined” events/processes does not help people understand them. I wd say to Dr Petras. & will if I get a moment, that it distresses me a great deal that his gross oversimplification of the processes in Tibet as well as in the former Yugoslavia will undermine broader reception of his carefully researched and thought-out work on the “Power of Izzy in the US”, re Latin America & Caribbean region, and much of his work on Imperialism as a System.

In my view, the failure of “Marxism-Leninism” in both areas points up fundamental weaknesses both of application and in Lenin’s interpretation of Marx’s work. Which does not mean that orthodox Leninism has no merit whatsoever; in most situations it would have to be preferred to any pro-Capitalist ideology or state. However I can’t remember or imagine anything worse than the Pol Pot regime, capitalist, feudal, whatever. Which was based on a version of “Marchus-Lemmingism”, on an interpretation of “Mao-tse-tung Thought”, I think it was called before the current gang of thugs took over?

Apparently Dr Petras wants us to think the heirs of Deng Xiao Bing currently installed in Beijing are “the Good Guys”? Who are somehow preferable to the US/Izzy power config? On the basis “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”? Which may hold true in the millenial abstract, but when said “friend” has his foot on your neck, a rifle pointed at your head, where then is the “principle contradiction”?

Well, I’ve had a standing order with Clarity Books to send me half a dozen copies of Petras’ next book soon as it’s published this August — but now I’m going to cancel it, at least put it on hold until I read the book. Maybe he’ll clarify his ideas about China/Tibet, and re the post-Tito “leaders” of the Yugo CP, whose greed them to start promoting Serbian nationalism which naturally led to popular acceptance of Croatian & other nationalisms. Which description is itself an oversimplification, but it’s part of the story, which is only obfuscated by trying to cram it all into the parameters of a “Marxist-Leninist” catechism ala the so-called “Party of Socialist Liberation” & similar outfits.

Nothing I say should be interpreted as supporting anything said by this “Michael Kenny” character who is best totally ignored. I know, hard to ignore a rat in the room, but in this case it’s probably the best course:)

]]> By: Adnan http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21881 Adnan Mon, 09 Jun 2008 19:12:24 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21881 What a piece of crap, Bosnian fundamentalists?! Poor kids who studied under so informed teacher, and we tend to blame them for staying so blissfully ignorant and uninformed, instead of "experts" like author of this nonsense. Yuck! What a piece of crap, Bosnian fundamentalists?!
Poor kids who studied under so informed teacher, and we tend to blame them for staying so blissfully ignorant and uninformed, instead of “experts” like author of this nonsense.

Yuck!

]]> By: Michael Kenny http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21876 Michael Kenny Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:42:48 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21876 Because Professor Petras has a fundamentally racist view of the world, he sees everything in terms of the American master race manipulating the poor, ignorant simpletons of the rest of the world who, naturally, are too dumb to cop on to what is happening, even years after the event! Fifteen years after the overthrow of the communist dictatorships, if life under them had been such a paradise, the people of those countries would surely have elected leaders who would take them back there! I don’t see who could stop them if they wanted to! But the idea that the peoples of the ex-Soviet Union or ex-Yugoslavia were, and continue to be, tricked into leaving a political Garden of Eden is so utterly racist as to be downright laughable! My advice to Professor Petras is the same I would offer to George Bush: Yankee go home! Because Professor Petras has a fundamentally racist view of the world, he sees everything in terms of the American master race manipulating the poor, ignorant simpletons of the rest of the world who, naturally, are too dumb to cop on to what is happening, even years after the event! Fifteen years after the overthrow of the communist dictatorships, if life under them had been such a paradise, the people of those countries would surely have elected leaders who would take them back there! I don’t see who could stop them if they wanted to! But the idea that the peoples of the ex-Soviet Union or ex-Yugoslavia were, and continue to be, tricked into leaving a political Garden of Eden is so utterly racist as to be downright laughable! My advice to Professor Petras is the same I would offer to George Bush: Yankee go home!

]]> By: bozhidar balkas http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21863 bozhidar balkas Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:07:59 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21863 i also suggest to petras that in order to elucidate ethnocentrism, one ought to study and collate all pertaining salient facts regarding the fact that all ethnoses have been and r now ethnocentric. we all cling to our language/lore/customs; it's a nat'l phenomenon. all ethnoses if not treated justly become separatists. to just condemn separatism w.o. introducing causative factors for this tendency is , to me, waste of time. americans and the irish were also separatist. irish r no longer separatist because the majority in n. ireland recognized the injustices done against the catholics. right to govern selves is a noble phenomenon and not as petras says a negative event. the problem is in the main that a stronger ethnos of a region or country almost always behaves unjustly. at times less numerous ethnos is unfair when it is used or abetted by foreign power. please petras , let's not make simplicities out of comlexities and comlexities out of simplicities as MSM does. thank u i also suggest to petras that in order to elucidate ethnocentrism, one ought to study and collate all pertaining salient facts regarding the fact that all ethnoses have been and r now ethnocentric.
we all cling to our language/lore/customs; it’s a nat’l phenomenon.
all ethnoses if not treated justly become separatists. to just condemn separatism w.o. introducing causative factors for this tendency is , to me, waste of time.
americans and the irish were also separatist. irish r no longer separatist because the majority in n. ireland recognized the injustices done against the catholics.
right to govern selves is a noble phenomenon and not as petras says a negative event.
the problem is in the main that a stronger ethnos of a region or country almost always behaves unjustly.
at times less numerous ethnos is unfair when it is used or abetted by foreign power.
please petras , let’s not make simplicities out of comlexities and comlexities out of simplicities as MSM does. thank u

]]> By: bozhidar balkas http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century/#comment-21860 bozhidar balkas Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:40:55 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2143#comment-21860 there we re many factors which destroyed first and second yugoslavia. first yugoslavia was a kingdom; that was an ominous factor. i do not know how many slovenes, croats, bosnians, macedonians , magyars, and kosovars hated the royalty but by 1938 there were many; probably most were against serbia and its king. whoever is ab to evaluate endings of two yugoslavias w.o. including this fact alone will fail to elucidate the sit'n. religiuous differences also must be taken into account. the fact that most serbs and some croats were imperialists as well as extremely strong nationalists is generally omitted by the people on the Left. nato, of course, may have known this when it opted for the break up of post-tito yugoslavia. also referendum was not held ab joining serbs and its empire after 3 serb aggressions in '91-92, break up of yugoslavia has brought croats and slovenes peace and prosperity while retaining similar social net to that of eu. petras, by calling croats "neo-fascist", is insulting all those croats, many of which r dead by now, who fought italians/germans. my home town of sibenik w. 18t on the adriatic coast suffered 1000 deaths. go to that town and other towns on the adriatic coast and u'l find plaques w. names of executed socialist/communist youths by italian black shirts or fallen in battle. there we re many factors which destroyed first and second yugoslavia.
first yugoslavia was a kingdom; that was an ominous factor. i do not know how many slovenes, croats, bosnians, macedonians , magyars, and kosovars hated the royalty but by 1938 there were many; probably most were against serbia and its king.
whoever is ab to evaluate endings of two yugoslavias w.o. including this fact alone will fail to elucidate the sit’n.
religiuous differences also must be taken into account. the fact that most serbs and some croats were imperialists as well as extremely strong nationalists is generally omitted by the people on the Left.
nato, of course, may have known this when it opted for the break up of post-tito yugoslavia.
also referendum was not held ab joining serbs and its empire
after 3 serb aggressions in ‘91-92, break up of yugoslavia has brought croats and slovenes peace and prosperity while retaining similar social net to that of eu.
petras, by calling croats “neo-fascist”, is insulting all those croats, many of which r dead by now, who fought italians/germans.
my home town of sibenik w. 18t on the adriatic coast suffered 1000 deaths.
go to that town and other towns on the adriatic coast and u’l find plaques w. names of executed socialist/communist youths by
italian black shirts or fallen in battle.

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