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	<title>Comments on: Clintons&#8217; Wreckage</title>
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	<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/#comment-21834</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2130#comment-21834</guid>
		<description>Great to have Clinton out of the picture. Now we can concentrate on the vacuous one. Clinton has always been a poor argument for Obama - but it's the only one he's really had.

Now that's watch as he slides over to the right. And he's already done that, but out march the excuses: AIPAC made him do it, the nasty corporate elite made him do it, the military complex made him do it, US empire policy made him do it...one of these days maybe we'll wake up and stop making excuses for him.

If anybody thinks this guys got the spine to buck the system then they're in fantacy land.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great to have Clinton out of the picture. Now we can concentrate on the vacuous one. Clinton has always been a poor argument for Obama - but it&#8217;s the only one he&#8217;s really had.</p>
<p>Now that&#8217;s watch as he slides over to the right. And he&#8217;s already done that, but out march the excuses: AIPAC made him do it, the nasty corporate elite made him do it, the military complex made him do it, US empire policy made him do it&#8230;one of these days maybe we&#8217;ll wake up and stop making excuses for him.</p>
<p>If anybody thinks this guys got the spine to buck the system then they&#8217;re in fantacy land.</p>
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		<title>By: Eddie</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/#comment-21795</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2130#comment-21795</guid>
		<description>I agree with Marth.  Smith's outraged that Hillary's brother might not vote for Obama.  What about when Michelle was on Today Show in February and said if Hillary got the nomination she wasn't sure she could vote for her?  What about when Michelle's brother launched that sexist attack on Hillary in the pages of The New Yorker?  Sharon Smith's citing the Moonie magazine Insight and that's funny enough but she really means Matt Drudge and can't get her facts straight.  Neither Drudge or Insight are reliable sources.  I look forward to picking up the next issue of ISR and coming across further praise of Matt Drudge from Sharon Smith.  There's not a fact in her article, she's bent them or made them up.  I'd love to see her put links in this article because then readers would grasp how much she lied (or is just plain oblivious to the facts) in this article.  I used to like her and enjoy reading her pieces in ISR.  After this garbage, I'll flip the page everytime I see her name.  Forget Hillary, she owes all who read this article an apology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Marth.  Smith&#8217;s outraged that Hillary&#8217;s brother might not vote for Obama.  What about when Michelle was on Today Show in February and said if Hillary got the nomination she wasn&#8217;t sure she could vote for her?  What about when Michelle&#8217;s brother launched that sexist attack on Hillary in the pages of The New Yorker?  Sharon Smith&#8217;s citing the Moonie magazine Insight and that&#8217;s funny enough but she really means Matt Drudge and can&#8217;t get her facts straight.  Neither Drudge or Insight are reliable sources.  I look forward to picking up the next issue of ISR and coming across further praise of Matt Drudge from Sharon Smith.  There&#8217;s not a fact in her article, she&#8217;s bent them or made them up.  I&#8217;d love to see her put links in this article because then readers would grasp how much she lied (or is just plain oblivious to the facts) in this article.  I used to like her and enjoy reading her pieces in ISR.  After this garbage, I&#8217;ll flip the page everytime I see her name.  Forget Hillary, she owes all who read this article an apology.</p>
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		<title>By: anthony innes</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/#comment-21753</link>
		<dc:creator>anthony innes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 01:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2130#comment-21753</guid>
		<description>Clintons and Obama are  the same clique fighting over the power so can they serve their corporate funding supporters and  line their own pockets.
Picture  (if you can) the Debate between Nader and Ron Paul and its possible to see the outline of real issues. This Congress is due in Court.
Any candidate not standing on an agenda for IMPEACHMENT for shrub and his enablers is guilty of treason to the Constitution and thinking progressives everywhere should rally around this issue. Its bi partisan and speaks to the heart of what has the potential to make or break the citizenry of the USA.
Honest Justice will protect and serve Women and all races alike .
Off with the blinkers and focus for rule of the Law.
IMPEACHMENT should be the theme for the struggle to November.
MSM need to have their faces rubbed in it .
The Dollar of the USA is headed for the bin unless the country shows its backbone and cleans house . No amount of posturing is going to restore the trust the rest of the world has lost in the ideals and  aspirations of the USA.
The education of the USA and the world  will begin with an IMPEACHMENT agenda.
Progressives do an end run around the cynics and the enemy.
KIS
IMPEACH.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clintons and Obama are  the same clique fighting over the power so can they serve their corporate funding supporters and  line their own pockets.<br />
Picture  (if you can) the Debate between Nader and Ron Paul and its possible to see the outline of real issues. This Congress is due in Court.<br />
Any candidate not standing on an agenda for IMPEACHMENT for shrub and his enablers is guilty of treason to the Constitution and thinking progressives everywhere should rally around this issue. Its bi partisan and speaks to the heart of what has the potential to make or break the citizenry of the USA.<br />
Honest Justice will protect and serve Women and all races alike .<br />
Off with the blinkers and focus for rule of the Law.<br />
IMPEACHMENT should be the theme for the struggle to November.<br />
MSM need to have their faces rubbed in it .<br />
The Dollar of the USA is headed for the bin unless the country shows its backbone and cleans house . No amount of posturing is going to restore the trust the rest of the world has lost in the ideals and  aspirations of the USA.<br />
The education of the USA and the world  will begin with an IMPEACHMENT agenda.<br />
Progressives do an end run around the cynics and the enemy.<br />
KIS<br />
IMPEACH.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Crass</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/#comment-21710</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Crass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 02:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2130#comment-21710</guid>
		<description>Wow. It's gonna be so great when all old people are fucking dead. Humanity might not be so horrible then.
Not keeping my hopes up or anything, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. It&#8217;s gonna be so great when all old people are fucking dead. Humanity might not be so horrible then.<br />
Not keeping my hopes up or anything, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/#comment-21675</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2130#comment-21675</guid>
		<description>I wasn't speaking for "all Blacks."  How interesting that a woman speaks out against the sexism and notes "many African-American women" and some presumably White man wants to come along and make it 'gender-free'.  I know I speak for Betty
http://thomasfriedmanisagreatman.blogspot.com/
I know I speak for Marcia
http://sickofitradlz.blogspot.com/
I know I'm in agreement with  Renita J. Weems
http://www.somethingwithin.com/blog/
Ditto Sugar
http://sugarnspice.typepad.com/

And I could go on and on.  There's a whole list of strong African-American women -- including Maya Angelou -- who spoke out against sexism and up for Hillary.  

Since you brought men into it even though I specifically noted "African-American women" I guess women on their own aren't important.  But along with Glen Ford and Bruce Dixon who are great writers, the many also include Ty:
http://thirdestatesundayreview.blogspot.com/

and Cedric:
http://cedricsbigmix.blogspot.com/

The candidate I'm supporting now is Ralph Nader and, deadbeat and Ms. Smith, I believe Mr. Nader just called out your political-crush today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t speaking for &#8220;all Blacks.&#8221;  How interesting that a woman speaks out against the sexism and notes &#8220;many African-American women&#8221; and some presumably White man wants to come along and make it &#8216;gender-free&#8217;.  I know I speak for Betty<br />
<a href="http://thomasfriedmanisagreatman.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://thomasfriedmanisagreatman.blogspot.com/</a><br />
I know I speak for Marcia<br />
<a href="http://sickofitradlz.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://sickofitradlz.blogspot.com/</a><br />
I know I&#8217;m in agreement with  Renita J. Weems<br />
<a href="http://www.somethingwithin.com/blog/" rel="nofollow">http://www.somethingwithin.com/blog/</a><br />
Ditto Sugar<br />
<a href="http://sugarnspice.typepad.com/" rel="nofollow">http://sugarnspice.typepad.com/</a></p>
<p>And I could go on and on.  There&#8217;s a whole list of strong African-American women &#8212; including Maya Angelou &#8212; who spoke out against sexism and up for Hillary.  </p>
<p>Since you brought men into it even though I specifically noted &#8220;African-American women&#8221; I guess women on their own aren&#8217;t important.  But along with Glen Ford and Bruce Dixon who are great writers, the many also include Ty:<br />
<a href="http://thirdestatesundayreview.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://thirdestatesundayreview.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>and Cedric:<br />
<a href="http://cedricsbigmix.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://cedricsbigmix.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>The candidate I&#8217;m supporting now is Ralph Nader and, deadbeat and Ms. Smith, I believe Mr. Nader just called out your political-crush today.</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/#comment-21673</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2130#comment-21673</guid>
		<description>I guess "Martha" speaks for all Blacks.  I' would say that Sharon Smith provides a much more cogent analysis that Glen Ford has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess &#8220;Martha&#8221; speaks for all Blacks.  I&#8217; would say that Sharon Smith provides a much more cogent analysis that Glen Ford has.</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/#comment-21671</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2130#comment-21671</guid>
		<description>Keep repeating lies by posting nonsense like Sharon Smith's and this African-American will cross this site off as another Whitey Tries To Show How Much S/He Cares.
Ms. Smith is factually challenged.  Hillary supporters in DC?  That was Florida voters and not all voted for Hillary.
Facts is hard Sharon Smith, facts is hard.
I love when a Whitey tells me about racism.  I really love that, Ms. Smith.  The Clintons didn't use racism, that's trope that's been repeated by the likes of Bob Herbert and considering his pre-NYT days, when he was telling lies about Blacks, I find it interesting that you, Great Whitey, would repeat that nonsense.
I supported Hillary and did so because I'm a Democrat.  What Socialist Sharon Smith has to say about the Democratic Party might be of interest but her nonsense in this is as laughable as when she tried to smack down Joshua Frank but only ended up making herself look bad (re: Ron Paul).  Smith is also disgusting because I believe Hillary's out of the race and here's White Mama writing another slam on the woman.  
Smith writes for ISR and though she could hop on her 'feminist' high horse when it was time to go to town on Joshua Frank, the reality is she like all the other LOSERS in Panhandle Media avoided calling out the very real sexism.  
Now in Sharon Smith's little world, it doesn't matter.  But in the real world and online, you can find many African-American women like myself calling it out.
White Mama, we get it, you love the Black man.  It's a shame you never thought to care about women.  Except when you needed to trash Joshua Frank.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep repeating lies by posting nonsense like Sharon Smith&#8217;s and this African-American will cross this site off as another Whitey Tries To Show How Much S/He Cares.<br />
Ms. Smith is factually challenged.  Hillary supporters in DC?  That was Florida voters and not all voted for Hillary.<br />
Facts is hard Sharon Smith, facts is hard.<br />
I love when a Whitey tells me about racism.  I really love that, Ms. Smith.  The Clintons didn&#8217;t use racism, that&#8217;s trope that&#8217;s been repeated by the likes of Bob Herbert and considering his pre-NYT days, when he was telling lies about Blacks, I find it interesting that you, Great Whitey, would repeat that nonsense.<br />
I supported Hillary and did so because I&#8217;m a Democrat.  What Socialist Sharon Smith has to say about the Democratic Party might be of interest but her nonsense in this is as laughable as when she tried to smack down Joshua Frank but only ended up making herself look bad (re: Ron Paul).  Smith is also disgusting because I believe Hillary&#8217;s out of the race and here&#8217;s White Mama writing another slam on the woman.<br />
Smith writes for ISR and though she could hop on her &#8216;feminist&#8217; high horse when it was time to go to town on Joshua Frank, the reality is she like all the other LOSERS in Panhandle Media avoided calling out the very real sexism.<br />
Now in Sharon Smith&#8217;s little world, it doesn&#8217;t matter.  But in the real world and online, you can find many African-American women like myself calling it out.<br />
White Mama, we get it, you love the Black man.  It&#8217;s a shame you never thought to care about women.  Except when you needed to trash Joshua Frank.</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/#comment-21669</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2130#comment-21669</guid>
		<description>Sharon Smith analysis is accurate and it also clearly explains why Obama did well among African Americans.  

Early in the primary season Clinton support among African Americans was greater than Obama's until Clinton played the race card in New Hampshire and South Carolina.  This aspect is missing in much of the critiques coming from Black Agenda Report and Glen Ford in particular.  He has been unfairly hyper-critical of Obama's African American supporters without articulating the divisive tactics of the Clintons.

The long primary season helped to finally and unambiguously expose the Clintons to the general public.  They've played the race and deploy divisive rhetoric.

I do agree with Ms. Smith that Obama has been weak and defensive because he has deliberately avoiding confronting racism by believing that America has transcended race.  I agree that this naive belief enabled the Clinton to dredge up the Southern Strategy.  But once again had Obama brought up race then the media would have labeled Obama the "affirmative action" candidate feeding white resentment any how.  Thus Obama IMO is kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I agree with Shabnam's assessment of Clinton's hardline and pro-Zionist stance.  Obama to some degree provide some "moderation" with his desire to negotiate.  Had there been match between Clinton and McCain (or any Republican except Ron Paul) would offer the public no choice.  Which is what Zionists especially in the media wanted to set up for the American people.

Again the awful situation this week where all of the major candidates and politicos have to genuflect before AIPAC really highlight the failure of the "left" to confront Zionism in the U.S.  Had the "left" not demobilize the anti-war movement in 2004 it certainly would have greatly altered the discourse.

Nader apparently is now talking a more critical stance on Israel.  Which is useful.  Unfortunately it arrives four-years too late.

Obama, due to the vacuum caused by the "left's" desire not to confront Zionism in the U.S and it's subsequence demobilization, is "acceptable enough" a candidate to marginalize Nader this year.  The "left" doesn't have to do that for him like they did for John Kerry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sharon Smith analysis is accurate and it also clearly explains why Obama did well among African Americans.  </p>
<p>Early in the primary season Clinton support among African Americans was greater than Obama&#8217;s until Clinton played the race card in New Hampshire and South Carolina.  This aspect is missing in much of the critiques coming from Black Agenda Report and Glen Ford in particular.  He has been unfairly hyper-critical of Obama&#8217;s African American supporters without articulating the divisive tactics of the Clintons.</p>
<p>The long primary season helped to finally and unambiguously expose the Clintons to the general public.  They&#8217;ve played the race and deploy divisive rhetoric.</p>
<p>I do agree with Ms. Smith that Obama has been weak and defensive because he has deliberately avoiding confronting racism by believing that America has transcended race.  I agree that this naive belief enabled the Clinton to dredge up the Southern Strategy.  But once again had Obama brought up race then the media would have labeled Obama the &#8220;affirmative action&#8221; candidate feeding white resentment any how.  Thus Obama IMO is kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.</p>
<p>I agree with Shabnam&#8217;s assessment of Clinton&#8217;s hardline and pro-Zionist stance.  Obama to some degree provide some &#8220;moderation&#8221; with his desire to negotiate.  Had there been match between Clinton and McCain (or any Republican except Ron Paul) would offer the public no choice.  Which is what Zionists especially in the media wanted to set up for the American people.</p>
<p>Again the awful situation this week where all of the major candidates and politicos have to genuflect before AIPAC really highlight the failure of the &#8220;left&#8221; to confront Zionism in the U.S.  Had the &#8220;left&#8221; not demobilize the anti-war movement in 2004 it certainly would have greatly altered the discourse.</p>
<p>Nader apparently is now talking a more critical stance on Israel.  Which is useful.  Unfortunately it arrives four-years too late.</p>
<p>Obama, due to the vacuum caused by the &#8220;left&#8217;s&#8221; desire not to confront Zionism in the U.S and it&#8217;s subsequence demobilization, is &#8220;acceptable enough&#8221; a candidate to marginalize Nader this year.  The &#8220;left&#8221; doesn&#8217;t have to do that for him like they did for John Kerry.</p>
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		<title>By: hp</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/#comment-21664</link>
		<dc:creator>hp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 16:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2130#comment-21664</guid>
		<description>The Clintons have racked up a body count which is the envy of psychopaths everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Clintons have racked up a body count which is the envy of psychopaths everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Shabnam</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/#comment-21656</link>
		<dc:creator>Shabnam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2130#comment-21656</guid>
		<description>Mr. Smith:
I agree with you hundred percent when you write:
 “Obama is innocent of Ferraro’s charge that he has played the “race card” during the primary season, but this is unfortunate. Obama’s reluctance to forcefully challenge racism on the campaign trail has allowed the Clinton campaign to make the “Southern strategy” 
respectable once again, emboldening the racist white minority—in stark contrast to majority opinion in this changing political climate.”  

As you have pointed out in this excellent article it was Hillary who used the race card from the beginning to steal the nomination.  Obama must deal with his opponents, the racists, with different techniques from the one using now because his treatment of Hillary has not been effective so far and she has done everything to defeat him in November against McCain so she can come back with her racist and pro Zionist message once again in 4 years from now. I am with you hundred percent when you suggest Obama should ignore Hillary Clinton and give her a middle finger if she or her racist and anti feminist supporters demand a position on the ticket including vice presidency.  Nothing is worse than that.  She has shown beyond reasonable doubt that she is capable of using anything including inciting assassination to force her opponents out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Smith:<br />
I agree with you hundred percent when you write:<br />
 “Obama is innocent of Ferraro’s charge that he has played the “race card” during the primary season, but this is unfortunate. Obama’s reluctance to forcefully challenge racism on the campaign trail has allowed the Clinton campaign to make the “Southern strategy”<br />
respectable once again, emboldening the racist white minority—in stark contrast to majority opinion in this changing political climate.”  </p>
<p>As you have pointed out in this excellent article it was Hillary who used the race card from the beginning to steal the nomination.  Obama must deal with his opponents, the racists, with different techniques from the one using now because his treatment of Hillary has not been effective so far and she has done everything to defeat him in November against McCain so she can come back with her racist and pro Zionist message once again in 4 years from now. I am with you hundred percent when you suggest Obama should ignore Hillary Clinton and give her a middle finger if she or her racist and anti feminist supporters demand a position on the ticket including vice presidency.  Nothing is worse than that.  She has shown beyond reasonable doubt that she is capable of using anything including inciting assassination to force her opponents out.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Mc</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/clintons-wreckage/#comment-21654</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Mc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2130#comment-21654</guid>
		<description>Hillary proved she's just as ugly inside as Bush or Cheney, and the more the voters saw that, the less they wanted her in office. Any office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hillary proved she&#8217;s just as ugly inside as Bush or Cheney, and the more the voters saw that, the less they wanted her in office. Any office.</p>
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