Comments on: “That’s Just Your Opinion” http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Sat, 22 Nov 2008 02:12:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: simon http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-26068 simon Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:34:30 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-26068 McCain is the Manchurian Candidate - just watch what happens when he gets power and they set him off McCain is the Manchurian Candidate - just watch what happens when he gets power and they set him off

]]> By: LEE http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23732 LEE Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:17:14 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23732 It's outrageous how the liberal democratic bloggers are trying belittle and discredit a patriot like John McCain. The main point regarding John McCain's military service goes to CHARACTER. Admirable character is when a POW, surviving in miserable conditions, chooses to remain in prison additional years, because an early release wouldn't be fair to his fellow prisoners. I know that Wesley Clark, Obama, and these criticizing bloggers wouldn't have the heart to do it ... they can't even recognize the importance of such an honorable commitment... even though their very freedom of speech, to complain on this blog, was won and protected by the same people with the courage to walk the walk ... not just talk the talk! It’s outrageous how the liberal democratic bloggers are trying belittle and discredit a patriot like John McCain. The main point regarding John McCain’s military service goes to CHARACTER. Admirable character is when a POW, surviving in miserable conditions, chooses to remain in prison additional years, because an early release wouldn’t be fair to his fellow prisoners. I know that Wesley Clark, Obama, and these criticizing bloggers wouldn’t have the heart to do it … they can’t even recognize the importance of such an honorable commitment… even though their very freedom of speech, to complain on this blog, was won and protected by the same people with the courage to walk the walk … not just talk the talk!

]]> By: synicab12 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23288 synicab12 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:40:38 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23288 To corylus, But if you open the flood gate of immigration, the bad situation for the average Joe/Jane will get worse. Yes, the source of the problem is corporate greed but now you are amplifying the effect of that greed on the average citizen here. Yes, I feel sorry for the immigrants but we cannot save everyone. And please let us be realistic and do not engage in willful thinking. To corylus,

But if you open the flood gate of immigration, the bad situation for the
average Joe/Jane will get worse. Yes, the source of the problem
is corporate greed but now you are amplifying the effect of that
greed on the average citizen here. Yes, I feel sorry for the immigrants
but we cannot save everyone.
And please let us be realistic and do not engage in willful thinking.

]]> By: corylus http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23266 corylus Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:32:40 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23266 I meant anti-immigration, as I have no bias against ants. I meant anti-immigration, as I have no bias against ants.

]]> By: corylus http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23265 corylus Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:30:38 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23265 Synicab, What do you mean, "here we go again"? Sounds like we both agree the fundamental issue is corporate greed, and failure of our government (and us citizens) to control the rape and pillage. So why blame immigrants, when what we need is an emigration policy for corporations? See this to get a better idea of corporate culpability: http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair06282008.html The "vacuum" of which I wrote is the flight of capital, and its ugly down-scaling here and abroad, creating jobs that no one here can afford to take because they don't pay the bills. Furthermore, no ant-immigration policies or walls or arrests will stop the flight of immigrants to this country, because that's what corporate American wants! We're all being squeezed, and the victims, immigrants and most American citizens, are all too busy trying to stay fed and housed than to start tearing down the corporate headquarters that are still here. Until we're all willing to destroy and kill corporatism -- by whatever means necessary -- whining about immigration just has you playing the divide-and-conquer corporate game. Synicab,
What do you mean, “here we go again”? Sounds like we both agree the fundamental issue is corporate greed, and failure of our government (and us citizens) to control the rape and pillage. So why blame immigrants, when what we need is an emigration policy for corporations? See this to get a better idea of corporate culpability: http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair06282008.html

The “vacuum” of which I wrote is the flight of capital, and its ugly down-scaling here and abroad, creating jobs that no one here can afford to take because they don’t pay the bills. Furthermore, no ant-immigration policies or walls or arrests will stop the flight of immigrants to this country, because that’s what corporate American wants! We’re all being squeezed, and the victims, immigrants and most American citizens, are all too busy trying to stay fed and housed than to start tearing down the corporate headquarters that are still here. Until we’re all willing to destroy and kill corporatism — by whatever means necessary — whining about immigration just has you playing the divide-and-conquer corporate game.

]]> By: brs http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23216 brs Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:23:45 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23216 Trying to reason with these people is pointless. Eric Hoffer covered the territory well is his classic work "True Believer" over fifty years ago. True Believers are not susceptible to logical argument or discussion. Sometimes emotional abuse works. Trying to reason with these people is pointless. Eric Hoffer covered the territory well is his classic work “True Believer” over fifty years ago. True Believers are not susceptible to logical argument or discussion. Sometimes emotional abuse works.

]]> By: synicab12 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23201 synicab12 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:15:42 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23201 corylus, Here we go again. Yes, I agree with you that immigration is a product of economic policies, and corporate -sponsored international trade agreements". Yes, I greee with you that it is the greed of the corporations is the source of the problem. But you said those corporate policies created a vacum into which immigrants have flowed. What vacuum??!! When there is flight of cpaital what follows is flight of jobs and now immigrants come and compete for the small amount of jobs that were left behind here. In that way the working people of this country are penalized twice: First many jobs are transfered to out of the borders and seconde they get fierce comptition from immigrants for what is left. Yes, those trade policies hurt many workers and farmers abroad too, so, if you want to atone for that then either you cancel those policies or let the greedy corporations do the atonement and not the innocent victim of those policies in this country. You said they are just other human beings trying to make a living. There are billions of humans who fit that discription. Do you want to allow all of them to come here??!! Now you see who is benefiting who is hurting from those open immigration policies?? Which side are you REALLY with!!?? What are corylus,

Here we go again. Yes, I agree with you that immigration is a product of economic policies, and corporate -sponsored international trade
agreements”. Yes, I greee with you that it is the greed of the corporations is the source of the problem.
But you said those corporate policies created a vacum into which
immigrants have flowed. What vacuum??!! When there is flight
of cpaital what follows is flight of jobs and now immigrants come and
compete for the small amount of jobs that were left behind here.
In that way the working people of this country are penalized twice:
First many jobs are transfered to out of the borders and seconde they
get fierce comptition from immigrants for what is left.
Yes, those trade policies hurt many workers and farmers abroad too,
so, if you want to atone for that then either you cancel those policies or
let the greedy corporations do the atonement and not the innocent victim of those policies in this country.
You said they are just other human beings trying to make a living. There are billions of humans who fit that discription. Do you want to allow all of them to come here??!!
Now you see who is benefiting who is hurting from those open immigration policies?? Which side are you REALLY with!!??
What are

]]> By: corylus http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23195 corylus Mon, 30 Jun 2008 04:23:10 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23195 Synicab, You obviously have fallen for the fallacious arguments of politicians and capitalism apologists, who continue to scapegoat immigrants, illegal or not, for the loss of American jobs. Immigration is a product of economic policies, and corporate-sponsored international trade agreements and the flight of American capital to overseas cheap labor markets has created the vacuum into which immigrants have flooded. Blame corporations and the unbridled greed of capitalism on a planet of limited resources for the loss of jobs, not other human beings trying their best to make a living. Continue to blame immigrants, and you're no better than racist hate-mongers like Limbaugh and McCain. Synicab,
You obviously have fallen for the fallacious arguments of politicians and capitalism apologists, who continue to scapegoat immigrants, illegal or not, for the loss of American jobs. Immigration is a product of economic policies, and corporate-sponsored international trade agreements and the flight of American capital to overseas cheap labor markets has created the vacuum into which immigrants have flooded.

Blame corporations and the unbridled greed of capitalism on a planet of limited resources for the loss of jobs, not other human beings trying their best to make a living. Continue to blame immigrants, and you’re no better than racist hate-mongers like Limbaugh and McCain.

]]> By: Red http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23179 Red Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:16:44 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23179 Good asrticle. For me the question "who's to say..." basically boils down to "you!". Those who use this excuse are making a fallacious argument from authority. Instead of checking their facts on their own, they "like to listen to what you call right-wing radio" as Roy says, and base their beliefs on the authority of their commentators. In my opinion, If you can't defend your views by facts and logic - whether you're on the right or on the left - your opinions are suspect at best, and you're on very shaky ground. The argument that all opinions are equaly "true" is not only worng, it's intentionaly missleading and dishonest in the way people like Roy use it. Does Roy really think that the opinions of the left are equaly valid? Does he really have an open mind about these issues? Has he looked at evidence that might prove him wrong? Is such evidence even possible, or will their always be an "answer" (the good'ol ad-hoc fallacy)? The answer to all these questions seems like no to me, and that exposes the falacy of the "who's to say" argument from anther direction. The bottom line is that this argument is both an argument from authority, and an ad-hoc argumnet, and is obviously false on both accounts. Good asrticle.
For me the question “who’s to say…” basically boils down to “you!”.
Those who use this excuse are making a fallacious argument from authority. Instead of checking their facts on their own, they “like to listen to what you call right-wing radio” as Roy says, and base their beliefs on the authority of their commentators.
In my opinion, If you can’t defend your views by facts and logic - whether you’re on the right or on the left - your opinions are suspect at best, and you’re on very shaky ground.
The argument that all opinions are equaly “true” is not only worng, it’s intentionaly missleading and dishonest in the way people like Roy use it.
Does Roy really think that the opinions of the left are equaly valid? Does he really have an open mind about these issues? Has he looked at evidence that might prove him wrong? Is such evidence even possible, or will their always be an “answer” (the good’ol ad-hoc fallacy)?
The answer to all these questions seems like no to me, and that exposes the falacy of the “who’s to say” argument from anther direction.
The bottom line is that this argument is both an argument from authority, and an ad-hoc argumnet, and is obviously false on both accounts.

]]> By: evie http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23178 evie Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:40:09 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23178 With all due respectful chuckling, this is a good example of "leftist" fellatio ... oh wait, maybe I mean fallacy. With all due respectful chuckling, this is a good example of “leftist” fellatio … oh wait, maybe I mean fallacy.

]]> By: synicab12 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23177 synicab12 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:32:21 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23177 I am liberal and left of center. With that said , your friend Roy is right when he says immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans. I think he means illegal immigrants. It baffles me why so called leftists like Mr. Partridge who are supposed to be the defenders of the working people start to huff and puff when anyone points out that illegal immigration hurts the working people of this country and benefits the business class. Illegal immigration provides an edless suppy of cheap and intimidated labor which put extreme downward pressure on wages and benefits availble to workers and weaken the bargaining power of labor and the ability to form unions. I am liberal and left of center.
With that said , your friend Roy is right when he says immigrants are
taking jobs away from Americans. I think he means illegal immigrants.
It baffles me why so called leftists like Mr. Partridge who are supposed
to be the defenders of the working people start to huff and puff when
anyone points out that illegal immigration hurts the working people
of this country and benefits the business class.
Illegal immigration provides an edless suppy of cheap and intimidated
labor which put extreme downward pressure on wages and benefits
availble to workers and weaken the bargaining power of labor and the
ability to form unions.

]]> By: Hue Longer http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23132 Hue Longer Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:47:08 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23132 Good read Prof, "that's just your opinion" or similar appeals to subjective reality is the last bastion of defense for the emotionally invested arguer who believes their belief must be --and actually can be by just believing that it must be-- defended. Because we understand what we are dealing with, it makes little sense to engage on this level with the likes of your computer guru (when you are directly going after his totems)...I have found that by attacking the relative left for their violations of logic, I get better results from ditto heads. Of course many on the "left" don't notice those violations because they're too busy awarding themselves for seeing them in the benighted supporters of Republicans. There's plenty a fallacy to complain about coming from the "left" attacking (mostly) the more left, and it's a great way to hopefully crack seeds of logic in those seemingly infertile brains of the FOX/RUSH/BUSH backers. "I hate Clinton, because..." Is a great ice breaker, but if one actually loves Democrats because Republicans are worse with logical fallacies... Good read Prof,

“that’s just your opinion” or similar appeals to subjective reality is the last bastion of defense for the emotionally invested arguer who believes their belief must be –and actually can be by just believing that it must be– defended.

Because we understand what we are dealing with, it makes little sense to engage on this level with the likes of your computer guru (when you are directly going after his totems)…I have found that by attacking the relative left for their violations of logic, I get better results from ditto heads. Of course many on the “left” don’t notice those violations because they’re too busy awarding themselves for seeing them in the benighted supporters of Republicans. There’s plenty a fallacy to complain about coming from the “left” attacking (mostly) the more left, and it’s a great way to hopefully crack seeds of logic in those seemingly infertile brains of the FOX/RUSH/BUSH backers.

“I hate Clinton, because…” Is a great ice breaker, but if one actually loves Democrats because Republicans are worse with logical fallacies…

]]> By: ajnasreddin http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-just-your-opinion%e2%80%9d/#comment-23102 ajnasreddin Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:54:19 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2245#comment-23102 I suppose it'd be wishful thinking to get this on NewsMax - no? I suppose it’d be wishful thinking to get this on NewsMax - no?

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