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	<title>Comments on: Georgia, NATO, and Russia</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/georgia-nato-and-russia/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/georgia-nato-and-russia/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: n.atam</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/georgia-nato-and-russia/#comment-24088</link>
		<dc:creator>n.atam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 08:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1974#comment-24088</guid>
		<description>I cannot understand Mikheil Saakashvili's pandering the American forces in regards to NATO. The very attitude of Saakashvili towards both his people and the neighboring republics is mind-boggling; how a president can so blatantly disregard what is good and right for his country is amazing. 
Check out http://www.ararat-center.org for more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot understand Mikheil Saakashvili&#8217;s pandering the American forces in regards to NATO. The very attitude of Saakashvili towards both his people and the neighboring republics is mind-boggling; how a president can so blatantly disregard what is good and right for his country is amazing.<br />
Check out <a href="http://www.ararat-center.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.ararat-center.org</a> for more.</p>
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		<title>By: zhann</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/georgia-nato-and-russia/#comment-20146</link>
		<dc:creator>zhann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 11:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1974#comment-20146</guid>
		<description>Eric, very nice article.  In part, I agree with Michael regarding the fact that the Georgia/Europe connection is irrelevant, but it helps in your argument regarding NATO vs. Russia, so I understand its place.  

An important fact to note is that Georgia is simply being used for the possible Gas pipeline that is planned to run through it.  Unfortunately, the West rarely learns from their mistakes, so even if this pipeline is built to bypass Russia, the administration in Georgia will change, and so will the pretext of the pipeline.  In so, Europe will once again rely on Russia for its gas.  

Another important fact to note is that Georgians in general are Pro-Russian.  Saakashvili is in the minority when attacking Russia publically, which is one of the primary reasons he is dragging so in the polls.  I know a large number of Georgian businessmen, they all understand the importance of Russia and are outraged at Saakashvili's attitude.  As you noted, Georgia needs to make friends with its neighbors, especially Russia.  

The two breakaway regions are simply further proof of NATO, but more so US, hypocrisy.  Kosovo was welcomed with open arms, but Abkhazia and South Ossetia aren't good enough.  The same can be said of Moldova's Transnestria and countless other regions.  It can be argued that all these regions are Pro-Russian, which the West doesn't want, but there are many other breakaway regions that aren't accepted as well.  Georgia is being used by the USA/NATO group, they know this, so they are trying to get as much out of this arrangement as possible.  More specifically, they would like the return of their two regions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, very nice article.  In part, I agree with Michael regarding the fact that the Georgia/Europe connection is irrelevant, but it helps in your argument regarding NATO vs. Russia, so I understand its place.  </p>
<p>An important fact to note is that Georgia is simply being used for the possible Gas pipeline that is planned to run through it.  Unfortunately, the West rarely learns from their mistakes, so even if this pipeline is built to bypass Russia, the administration in Georgia will change, and so will the pretext of the pipeline.  In so, Europe will once again rely on Russia for its gas.  </p>
<p>Another important fact to note is that Georgians in general are Pro-Russian.  Saakashvili is in the minority when attacking Russia publically, which is one of the primary reasons he is dragging so in the polls.  I know a large number of Georgian businessmen, they all understand the importance of Russia and are outraged at Saakashvili&#8217;s attitude.  As you noted, Georgia needs to make friends with its neighbors, especially Russia.  </p>
<p>The two breakaway regions are simply further proof of NATO, but more so US, hypocrisy.  Kosovo was welcomed with open arms, but Abkhazia and South Ossetia aren&#8217;t good enough.  The same can be said of Moldova&#8217;s Transnestria and countless other regions.  It can be argued that all these regions are Pro-Russian, which the West doesn&#8217;t want, but there are many other breakaway regions that aren&#8217;t accepted as well.  Georgia is being used by the USA/NATO group, they know this, so they are trying to get as much out of this arrangement as possible.  More specifically, they would like the return of their two regions.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kenny</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/georgia-nato-and-russia/#comment-20068</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 21:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1974#comment-20068</guid>
		<description>The precise boundaries of Europe are a matter of dispute among geographers, so claiming out of hand that Georgia is not a European country goes too far. Equally, the geographical boundary is only peripherally relevant, since political Europe is a cultural concept, not a purely geographical one.  The Canaries, Madeira and the Azores, for example, are not part of geographical Europe but their populations are entirely European, and nobody claims that they should be separated from Spain or Portugal, least of all their own populations! And, of course, there is the big argument as to whether Turkey is European or not!

Like Russia, Ukraine and Armenia, Georgia is a member of the Council of Europe (i.e. the people who blew the lid off the rendition flights) and it would not have been admitted if the other members did not regard it as a European democracy. 

There is thus really no point is gasbagging about whether Georgia is a European country or whether it should or should not be in NATO. The essential point is that NATO has served its purpose, and served it well, but now no longer has any reason to exist. That will not change if Georgia is admitted and it will not change if Georgia is not admitted.  To mind mind, the sole purpose of NATO is to provide a legal pretext for keeping US forces and military supplies close to Israel, hence the latter's finger in the pie. Once the US economy collpases (and McCain is the best man to advance that process!), it won't really matter, since the US will be in no position to do anything for Israel and at that point, NATO will just die of its own irrelevance and be replaced by some EU-centered defence structure, which will probably include both Russia and Georgia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The precise boundaries of Europe are a matter of dispute among geographers, so claiming out of hand that Georgia is not a European country goes too far. Equally, the geographical boundary is only peripherally relevant, since political Europe is a cultural concept, not a purely geographical one.  The Canaries, Madeira and the Azores, for example, are not part of geographical Europe but their populations are entirely European, and nobody claims that they should be separated from Spain or Portugal, least of all their own populations! And, of course, there is the big argument as to whether Turkey is European or not!</p>
<p>Like Russia, Ukraine and Armenia, Georgia is a member of the Council of Europe (i.e. the people who blew the lid off the rendition flights) and it would not have been admitted if the other members did not regard it as a European democracy. </p>
<p>There is thus really no point is gasbagging about whether Georgia is a European country or whether it should or should not be in NATO. The essential point is that NATO has served its purpose, and served it well, but now no longer has any reason to exist. That will not change if Georgia is admitted and it will not change if Georgia is not admitted.  To mind mind, the sole purpose of NATO is to provide a legal pretext for keeping US forces and military supplies close to Israel, hence the latter&#8217;s finger in the pie. Once the US economy collpases (and McCain is the best man to advance that process!), it won&#8217;t really matter, since the US will be in no position to do anything for Israel and at that point, NATO will just die of its own irrelevance and be replaced by some EU-centered defence structure, which will probably include both Russia and Georgia.</p>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/georgia-nato-and-russia/#comment-20067</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 20:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1974#comment-20067</guid>
		<description>how long can russia defy  corporate world?  with global  warming, siberia looks mighty good  to the plutocrats,  who now govern the world.
nationalism  is  dying; democracy  we never had in canada, UK, US.  so, we're not  loising  anything on  narrow political  level.
even china  will have  to cry  uncle  or  either  be  dismebered or bite the dust.
i do not expect  russia  to use  wmd  to  keep  plutocrats  at bay.
so, in  decades to come  both china  and  russia will  have  to  join  US. thank u.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how long can russia defy  corporate world?  with global  warming, siberia looks mighty good  to the plutocrats,  who now govern the world.<br />
nationalism  is  dying; democracy  we never had in canada, UK, US.  so, we&#8217;re not  loising  anything on  narrow political  level.<br />
even china  will have  to cry  uncle  or  either  be  dismebered or bite the dust.<br />
i do not expect  russia  to use  wmd  to  keep  plutocrats  at bay.<br />
so, in  decades to come  both china  and  russia will  have  to  join  US. thank u.</p>
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		<title>By: sk</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/georgia-nato-and-russia/#comment-20066</link>
		<dc:creator>sk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 20:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1974#comment-20066</guid>
		<description>Some deep thinkers are already preparing the ground for "a much &lt;a href="http://tinyurl.com/47f8gu" rel="nofollow"&gt;bigger world&lt;/a&gt; than that for which the Alliance has prepared of late."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some deep thinkers are already preparing the ground for &#8220;a much <a href="http://tinyurl.com/47f8gu" rel="nofollow">bigger world</a> than that for which the Alliance has prepared of late.&#8221;</p>
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