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	<title>Comments on: FBI Loses National Security Letter Case Against Internet Archive</title>
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	<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/fbi-loses-national-security-letter-case-against-internet-archive/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: evie</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/fbi-loses-national-security-letter-case-against-internet-archive/#comment-20325</link>
		<dc:creator>evie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 23:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1983#comment-20325</guid>
		<description>Even if new faces are elected every few years to represent the people, you will still be sold down the river until you outlaw that which makes selling out so easy and lucrative.

It is possible to "revolt" quietly and for all intent and purpose - legally. Just become independent of government and have a good tax preparer/accountant.

I may be one of the "little people" but I'm not stupid and can outwit the "ruling class" any day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if new faces are elected every few years to represent the people, you will still be sold down the river until you outlaw that which makes selling out so easy and lucrative.</p>
<p>It is possible to &#8220;revolt&#8221; quietly and for all intent and purpose - legally. Just become independent of government and have a good tax preparer/accountant.</p>
<p>I may be one of the &#8220;little people&#8221; but I&#8217;m not stupid and can outwit the &#8220;ruling class&#8221; any day.</p>
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		<title>By: HR</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/fbi-loses-national-security-letter-case-against-internet-archive/#comment-20272</link>
		<dc:creator>HR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 01:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1983#comment-20272</guid>
		<description>MRH, your APPOINTED, policy-level people are APPOINTED by ELECTED officials, and they carry out their wishes unless they are looking to get fired.  In other words, they serve completely at the pleasure of ELECTED officials.  I've heard the same blowhard talk that you have, from a few vets and cops, (and from a lot of other chronic whiners) particularly after they've had a few drinks, heard it all my life, but nothing ever comes of it.  Deep down, below the bluster, they know damned good and well what a government response would be:  just the same as it was when Washington put down the Whiskey Rebellion.  And, they also know good and well that most cops and military members would do exactly as ordered by their political bosses, just as they did during the labor movement, just as they did during the Bonus Army invasion of Washington.  After the government came down hard on a few example cases and publicized it, the "revolt" would collapse overnight.

Tax revolts are nothing more than an unworkable, ass-backwards attempt to change the status quo.  It's a little like people reelecting a person to Congress after that person did nothing but sell them down the river for the previous two, or six, years, then whining about continuing to be sold out and proposing some nonsensical revolt as a response.  You want change, then elect people who actually represent you.  Correct the problem where it begins.  The rest is just a reactionary pipe dream.  While you're at it, you might look into how government is organized ... and actually functions on a day-to-day basis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MRH, your APPOINTED, policy-level people are APPOINTED by ELECTED officials, and they carry out their wishes unless they are looking to get fired.  In other words, they serve completely at the pleasure of ELECTED officials.  I&#8217;ve heard the same blowhard talk that you have, from a few vets and cops, (and from a lot of other chronic whiners) particularly after they&#8217;ve had a few drinks, heard it all my life, but nothing ever comes of it.  Deep down, below the bluster, they know damned good and well what a government response would be:  just the same as it was when Washington put down the Whiskey Rebellion.  And, they also know good and well that most cops and military members would do exactly as ordered by their political bosses, just as they did during the labor movement, just as they did during the Bonus Army invasion of Washington.  After the government came down hard on a few example cases and publicized it, the &#8220;revolt&#8221; would collapse overnight.</p>
<p>Tax revolts are nothing more than an unworkable, ass-backwards attempt to change the status quo.  It&#8217;s a little like people reelecting a person to Congress after that person did nothing but sell them down the river for the previous two, or six, years, then whining about continuing to be sold out and proposing some nonsensical revolt as a response.  You want change, then elect people who actually represent you.  Correct the problem where it begins.  The rest is just a reactionary pipe dream.  While you&#8217;re at it, you might look into how government is organized &#8230; and actually functions on a day-to-day basis.</p>
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		<title>By: MRH</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/fbi-loses-national-security-letter-case-against-internet-archive/#comment-20265</link>
		<dc:creator>MRH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 22:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1983#comment-20265</guid>
		<description>-- HR said on May 11th, 2008 at 1:41 pm #
"Lloyd, I have heard the blathering babble about tax revolts all my life. [....] Besides, once you’ve paid any taxes, how they’re spent is beyond your control. That’s left by the Constitution up to your ELECTED officials."--

HR, keep drinking the Kool-aid; whatever gets you thru the day. Taxes are spent by APPOINTED people; elected people are not involved in it at all. No one will send the goon squad or the IRS after a concerted, stalwart POPULATION that resists our government's tyranny. People that think and act like you do make it easy, easy, easy for the government to abuse their power. A tax revolt is precisely that: a revolt. And it's about time. You will also be VERY surprised to find out that many law enforcement and military personnel will support and agree with any kind of revolt against the tyranny this government has become. We don't need  "less" government; regulation is necessary. We need a government that answers to the people; radical surgery gets rid of cancer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8211; HR said on May 11th, 2008 at 1:41 pm #<br />
&#8220;Lloyd, I have heard the blathering babble about tax revolts all my life. [....] Besides, once you’ve paid any taxes, how they’re spent is beyond your control. That’s left by the Constitution up to your ELECTED officials.&#8221;&#8211;</p>
<p>HR, keep drinking the Kool-aid; whatever gets you thru the day. Taxes are spent by APPOINTED people; elected people are not involved in it at all. No one will send the goon squad or the IRS after a concerted, stalwart POPULATION that resists our government&#8217;s tyranny. People that think and act like you do make it easy, easy, easy for the government to abuse their power. A tax revolt is precisely that: a revolt. And it&#8217;s about time. You will also be VERY surprised to find out that many law enforcement and military personnel will support and agree with any kind of revolt against the tyranny this government has become. We don&#8217;t need  &#8220;less&#8221; government; regulation is necessary. We need a government that answers to the people; radical surgery gets rid of cancer.</p>
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		<title>By: HR</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/fbi-loses-national-security-letter-case-against-internet-archive/#comment-20259</link>
		<dc:creator>HR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 20:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1983#comment-20259</guid>
		<description>Lloyd, I have heard the blathering babble about tax revolts all my life.  I totally reject it, and have done so since my youth.  To me, a tax revolt is the epitome of shooting oneself in the foot, not to mention being an ineffectual, ass-backward approach to change.  I see it as a cover for implementation of a policy of doing away with public services that is promoted either by gullible dreamers, or by pseudoprogressives, whose real goal is to shrink government and do away with taxes, under the guise of being an antiwar effort (those who cry for "local control" are nothing but supporters of neofeudalism).

Thoreau never impressed me, either.  I suspect the story of his tax revolt was taught to us in the public elementary school curriculum solely for the purpose of ingraining in our little minds the notion of tax revolts as the way preferred by the rulers for commoners to express dissatisfaction, something much more to the liking of the wealthy power elite than us actually voting for our own candidates who would be more likely to enact policies that we commoners would support to begin with.

I enjoy having the services that government provides me with just under half of the income taxes I pay to it.  I like big government, too, really big, one which is big enough to provide badly needed services to itself, the people.  I also am a strong supporter of a truly progressive income tax, for reimplementation of the tax brackets that existed before Reagan was ELECTED ... and elected by working people.

Let's see now, just what would happen in the unlikely event of a real tax revolt.  First, the IRS would come down on us, then the military, both only doing their jobs.  Meanwhile, services to the needy would decline, or be stopped entirely, infrastructure maintenance would come to a nearly-complete halt.  Small towns, dependent in large part on federal government grants for services like water and sewage treatment would suffer ... as would large metropolitan areas.  And, the wars, or whatever policy caused the revolt, would continue.

Already I can hear hollering about just refusing to pay the 50-plus percent that goes to the war departments, and there are more than one of them here.  Same result.  Besides, once you've paid any taxes, how they're spent is beyond your control.  That's left by the Constitution up to your ELECTED officials.

For me the whole notion of tax revolts is a total exercise in futility.  A total waste of time, time that could be better spent actually thinking for ourselves, and voting accordingly, with write-in candidates and numerous runoff elections, if need be.  Instead, most of the half of us eligible who still vote will go to the polls and choose among identical corporate candidates, their "party" affiliation notwithstanding.

Taking charge of this country by us commoners – for the first time, since "take BACK our country" is a sickeningly misleading phrase – doesn't take an organized effort.  No organization is required at all.  People, on an individual basis, can mark their ballots, writing in the name if need be, for those they believe will truly represent their interests, whoever those people may be. It doesn't matter if doing so results in the media, as well as those who benefit from the current system, dutifully branding the outcome a undemocratic, as chaos, or anarchy, or worse.  It doesn't matter if doing so spells doom for the money-dominated "party" organizations that have ruled this country from the beginning, for the benefit of the rich and powerful. What would matter is that the people would have spoken, would have, finally, taken a mighty step toward taking charge in a country that claims to have a government that is of, by, and for, THE PEOPLE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lloyd, I have heard the blathering babble about tax revolts all my life.  I totally reject it, and have done so since my youth.  To me, a tax revolt is the epitome of shooting oneself in the foot, not to mention being an ineffectual, ass-backward approach to change.  I see it as a cover for implementation of a policy of doing away with public services that is promoted either by gullible dreamers, or by pseudoprogressives, whose real goal is to shrink government and do away with taxes, under the guise of being an antiwar effort (those who cry for &#8220;local control&#8221; are nothing but supporters of neofeudalism).</p>
<p>Thoreau never impressed me, either.  I suspect the story of his tax revolt was taught to us in the public elementary school curriculum solely for the purpose of ingraining in our little minds the notion of tax revolts as the way preferred by the rulers for commoners to express dissatisfaction, something much more to the liking of the wealthy power elite than us actually voting for our own candidates who would be more likely to enact policies that we commoners would support to begin with.</p>
<p>I enjoy having the services that government provides me with just under half of the income taxes I pay to it.  I like big government, too, really big, one which is big enough to provide badly needed services to itself, the people.  I also am a strong supporter of a truly progressive income tax, for reimplementation of the tax brackets that existed before Reagan was ELECTED &#8230; and elected by working people.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see now, just what would happen in the unlikely event of a real tax revolt.  First, the IRS would come down on us, then the military, both only doing their jobs.  Meanwhile, services to the needy would decline, or be stopped entirely, infrastructure maintenance would come to a nearly-complete halt.  Small towns, dependent in large part on federal government grants for services like water and sewage treatment would suffer &#8230; as would large metropolitan areas.  And, the wars, or whatever policy caused the revolt, would continue.</p>
<p>Already I can hear hollering about just refusing to pay the 50-plus percent that goes to the war departments, and there are more than one of them here.  Same result.  Besides, once you&#8217;ve paid any taxes, how they&#8217;re spent is beyond your control.  That&#8217;s left by the Constitution up to your ELECTED officials.</p>
<p>For me the whole notion of tax revolts is a total exercise in futility.  A total waste of time, time that could be better spent actually thinking for ourselves, and voting accordingly, with write-in candidates and numerous runoff elections, if need be.  Instead, most of the half of us eligible who still vote will go to the polls and choose among identical corporate candidates, their &#8220;party&#8221; affiliation notwithstanding.</p>
<p>Taking charge of this country by us commoners – for the first time, since &#8220;take BACK our country&#8221; is a sickeningly misleading phrase – doesn&#8217;t take an organized effort.  No organization is required at all.  People, on an individual basis, can mark their ballots, writing in the name if need be, for those they believe will truly represent their interests, whoever those people may be. It doesn&#8217;t matter if doing so results in the media, as well as those who benefit from the current system, dutifully branding the outcome a undemocratic, as chaos, or anarchy, or worse.  It doesn&#8217;t matter if doing so spells doom for the money-dominated &#8220;party&#8221; organizations that have ruled this country from the beginning, for the benefit of the rich and powerful. What would matter is that the people would have spoken, would have, finally, taken a mighty step toward taking charge in a country that claims to have a government that is of, by, and for, THE PEOPLE.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Burghardt</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/fbi-loses-national-security-letter-case-against-internet-archive/#comment-20257</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Burghardt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 20:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1983#comment-20257</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments and feedback... They're appreciated. As far as forwarding my articles, DV and Global Research seem to be the only takers, as far as I can tell. Needless to say, there's no accountability in Washington. From massive war crimes and the total destruction of Iraq, torture of prisoners and the destruction of civil liberties in the "homeland," the only folks who are "accountable" for anything are, in the immortal words of the late Queen of Mean, Leona Helmsley, "the little people."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments and feedback&#8230; They&#8217;re appreciated. As far as forwarding my articles, DV and Global Research seem to be the only takers, as far as I can tell. Needless to say, there&#8217;s no accountability in Washington. From massive war crimes and the total destruction of Iraq, torture of prisoners and the destruction of civil liberties in the &#8220;homeland,&#8221; the only folks who are &#8220;accountable&#8221; for anything are, in the immortal words of the late Queen of Mean, Leona Helmsley, &#8220;the little people.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd Rowsey</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/fbi-loses-national-security-letter-case-against-internet-archive/#comment-20219</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd Rowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 02:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1983#comment-20219</guid>
		<description>That is forward-looking, HR.  You're withholding your federal taxes, presumably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is forward-looking, HR.  You&#8217;re withholding your federal taxes, presumably.</p>
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		<title>By: HR</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/fbi-loses-national-security-letter-case-against-internet-archive/#comment-20200</link>
		<dc:creator>HR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 20:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1983#comment-20200</guid>
		<description>I personally look forward to the day when those in "congress", from either "party", who voted for repressive legislation like the "patriot" act, realID, military commissions act, funding for wars, etc., are sitting in prison for the rest of their pathetic lives following conviction for treason.  Apparently what I look forward to is not shared by many USans, who bleat contentedly as their freedom and privacy are stolen.  After, "forget it and move on" has become the credo here following 30 years of failing to hold people accountable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally look forward to the day when those in &#8220;congress&#8221;, from either &#8220;party&#8221;, who voted for repressive legislation like the &#8220;patriot&#8221; act, realID, military commissions act, funding for wars, etc., are sitting in prison for the rest of their pathetic lives following conviction for treason.  Apparently what I look forward to is not shared by many USans, who bleat contentedly as their freedom and privacy are stolen.  After, &#8220;forget it and move on&#8221; has become the credo here following 30 years of failing to hold people accountable.</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd Rowsey</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/fbi-loses-national-security-letter-case-against-internet-archive/#comment-20189</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd Rowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 18:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1983#comment-20189</guid>
		<description>And no mientes, Tomas.  No post is good post at DV</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And no mientes, Tomas.  No post is good post at DV</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd Rowsey</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/fbi-loses-national-security-letter-case-against-internet-archive/#comment-20173</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd Rowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 12:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=1983#comment-20173</guid>
		<description>Most Excellent, Tom!   I'm forwarding it to my friend, a librarian-assistant-professor in the California State University  system, requesting that she forward it as appropriate.  I hope you've forwarded it to national print magazines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most Excellent, Tom!   I&#8217;m forwarding it to my friend, a librarian-assistant-professor in the California State University  system, requesting that she forward it as appropriate.  I hope you&#8217;ve forwarded it to national print magazines.</p>
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