Comments on: “With Total Destruction” http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:55:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: MJK http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-18722 MJK Sat, 19 Apr 2008 15:53:28 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-18722 You can argue till your blue in the face about what Westerners think about Tibet, historical claims, etc. (ie. Parenti, Marten) but after travelling in Tibet, India, Nepal, etc, I haven't met one Tibetan that wants to live under the current Chinese policies in Tibet. And without a voice inside Tibet, Tibetan people have no choice but to seek outside help...not just Western backed assistance. And if this high profile Tibet PR campaign is working, its not an imperialist scheme to take down China. ITS A WAY TO VOICE LEGITIMATE HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES! You can argue till your blue in the face about what Westerners think about Tibet, historical claims, etc. (ie. Parenti, Marten) but after travelling in Tibet, India, Nepal, etc, I haven’t met one Tibetan that wants to live under the current Chinese policies in Tibet. And without a voice inside Tibet, Tibetan people have no choice but to seek outside help…not just Western backed assistance. And if this high profile Tibet PR campaign is working, its not an imperialist scheme to take down China. ITS A WAY TO VOICE LEGITIMATE HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES!

]]> By: Joan Malerich http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17515 Joan Malerich Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:54:13 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17515 This is to David Edwards above response to a comment by a reader: Edwards stated: Over the years, just about every time the Tibet issue has been raised on our website, Parenti’s article has been cited again and again. It’s as though leftists have really only ever read this single piece on Tibetan culture and history. Which is bad news because it’s a poor piece of work. There’s an interesting response here: http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org/article.php?id=425 I accessed the article, "A Lie Repeated - The Far Left's Flawed History of Tibet" by Jushua Michael Schrei. I found Shrei to be both arrogant and deceptive--a very poor piece of work. First Shrei seems to be into his own little "HR" world. He refers more than once to "ALL" of the HR groups criticizing HR abuses by China and at one point of genocide. WHO FUNDS THESE HR GROUPS? The Western powers, of course. Any leftist leaning country that is not a friend of the US has the HR groups unleashed on them. Any socialist country that wants to share its social programs with other countries is targeted: Cuba and Venezuela are the best examples currently. Other examples of HR targeting are Milosevic in the former Yugoslavia (for some facts and truth go to Edward Herman's great piece at http://www.monthlyreview.org/oct2007.php) Mugabe of Zimbabwe (for some truth and reality go to http://gowans.blogspot.com/) For a report on the funding of Amnesty International, go to SourceWatch http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Amnesty_International. Second, Schrei criticizes Parenti for not being in Tibet, not talking to the people, not understanding their culture. One must wonder what device Shrei would use to attack Elisabeth Marten who has spent extensive time in Tibet (and not at the pay of the imperialist powers). In an interview by Benito Perez of "Le Courrier," Martens does an expert job of analyzing the historical context of Tibet/China relations. She understands the art, the culture AND the two different concepts of Buddhism in Tibet and China. I would love to see Schrei strain his brain in a response to Martens. This excellent interview can be accessed in English translation at http://cirqueminime.blogcollective.com/blog/_archives/2008/3/31/3612817.html This is to David Edwards above response to a comment by a reader: Edwards stated: Over the years, just about every time the Tibet issue has been raised on our website, Parenti’s article has been cited again and again. It’s as though leftists have really only ever read this single piece on Tibetan culture and history. Which is bad news because it’s a poor piece of work. There’s an interesting response here: http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org/article.php?id=425

I accessed the article, “A Lie Repeated - The Far Left’s Flawed History of Tibet” by Jushua Michael Schrei. I found Shrei to be both arrogant and deceptive–a very poor piece of work. First Shrei seems to be into his own little “HR” world. He refers more than once to “ALL” of the HR groups criticizing HR abuses by China and at one point of genocide. WHO FUNDS THESE HR GROUPS? The Western powers, of course. Any leftist leaning country that is not a friend of the US has the HR groups unleashed on them. Any socialist country that wants to share its social programs with other countries is targeted: Cuba and Venezuela are the best examples currently. Other examples of HR targeting are Milosevic in the former Yugoslavia (for some facts and truth go to Edward Herman’s great piece at http://www.monthlyreview.org/oct2007.php) Mugabe of Zimbabwe (for some truth and reality go to http://gowans.blogspot.com/)
For a report on the funding of Amnesty International, go to SourceWatch
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Amnesty_International.

Second, Schrei criticizes Parenti for not being in Tibet, not talking to the people, not understanding their culture. One must wonder what device Shrei would use to attack Elisabeth Marten who has spent extensive time in Tibet (and not at the pay of the imperialist powers). In an interview by Benito Perez of “Le Courrier,” Martens does an expert job of analyzing the historical context of Tibet/China relations. She understands the art, the culture AND the two different concepts of Buddhism in Tibet and China. I would love to see Schrei strain his brain in a response to Martens. This excellent interview can be accessed in English translation at http://cirqueminime.blogcollective.com/blog/_archives/2008/3/31/3612817.html

]]> By: D.R. Munro http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17453 D.R. Munro Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:16:33 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17453 We could always peacefully protest outside of the UN. . . . . . oh wait, then the NYPD might beat the shit out of us. We could always peacefully protest outside of the UN. . .

. . . oh wait, then the NYPD might beat the shit out of us.

]]> By: hp http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17443 hp Thu, 03 Apr 2008 00:14:07 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17443 Let's just let the Dalai Lama speak for himself and by dint of his authority, Tibet. "We do not want independence. This is my mantra-we do not seek independence." It seems like there are a whole lot of people, Western people, who know more about Tibet than the Dalai Lama himself. In fact, they can tell you as much in paragraph after paragraph of moralizing and wallowing in their own particular style(s) of usurping egalitarianism. Let’s just let the Dalai Lama speak for himself and by dint of his authority, Tibet.

“We do not want independence. This is my mantra-we do not seek independence.”

It seems like there are a whole lot of people, Western people, who know more about Tibet than the Dalai Lama himself.
In fact, they can tell you as much in paragraph after paragraph of moralizing and wallowing in their own particular style(s) of usurping egalitarianism.

]]> By: David Edwards http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17438 David Edwards Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:44:17 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17438 Thanks for the comments. Over the years, just about every time the Tibet issue has been raised on our website, Parenti's article has been cited again and again. It's as though leftists have really only ever read this single piece on Tibetan culture and history. Which is bad news because it's a poor piece of work. There's an interesting response here: http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org/article.php?id=425 It's shocking how Westerners are so quick to rush to judgement on a traditional culture like Tibet, and how we fail to perceive our own cultural arrogance in so doing. Anyone who has looked at these issues seriously recognises that it's incredibly different to distinguish the reality of the traditional culture from our own preconceptions. Thanks for the comments. Over the years, just about every time the Tibet issue has been raised on our website, Parenti’s article has been cited again and again. It’s as though leftists have really only ever read this single piece on Tibetan culture and history. Which is bad news because it’s a poor piece of work. There’s an interesting response here: http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org/article.php?id=425

It’s shocking how Westerners are so quick to rush to judgement on a traditional culture like Tibet, and how we fail to perceive our own cultural arrogance in so doing. Anyone who has looked at these issues seriously recognises that it’s incredibly different to distinguish the reality of the traditional culture from our own preconceptions.

]]> By: hp http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17425 hp Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:30:43 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17425 The Dalai Lama sure does spend a lot of time at high society gatherings. Usually talking like a ten year old using a six year old's standard platitudes. Eric is correct as to Michael Parenti's views and presentation. In fairness to the Dalai Lama, he does offer to China the most reasonable and quite possibly only workable solution. A return to the 'good old days.' The Dalai Lama sure does spend a lot of time at high society gatherings. Usually talking like a ten year old using a six year old’s standard platitudes.

Eric is correct as to Michael Parenti’s views and presentation.
In fairness to the Dalai Lama, he does offer to China the most reasonable and quite possibly only workable solution.
A return to the ‘good old days.’

]]> By: Eric http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17416 Eric Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:34:37 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/%e2%80%9cwith-total-destruction%e2%80%9d/#comment-17416 Truly remarkable. Media lens has obviously done absolutely no study of the history of Tibet and China. He might as well say that Texas has no territorial relationship with the US. And that the US civil war was a colonial adventure against some independent territories that wanted to keep a large part of their population in servitude. Tibet was a province of China for hundreds of years-except for the interim between 1911 and 1949, when China itself was essentially colonized by ruthless Western powers who foisted opium on the population against the wishes of the Emperor, driving the country into ruin. Michael Parenti has a far better documented story at his website. If you are going to be a dissident voice you really need to get the facts straight. The Dalai Lama has been equivocal in his statements about Iraq and apparently has no understanding of the CIA role in creating the Taliban. But he himself is well documented as receiving CIA funding. Doesn't make him a bad person. He has a lot of good things to say, but his relationship to the CIA and the Tibetan clergy's history of maltreatment and exploitation should have been addressed in the article. China in Tibet vs US in Iraq is a non comparison. The Dalai Lama's feel good behavior to Bush gives me pause, I certainly understand his stance of unconditional kindness --even towards a war criminal-- but he at a minimum is being used by Bush. I think it highly possible that the Left in the US, which is sympathetic to the Tibetans and the Dalai Lama are being deliberately misdirected. The first priority is to stop US warmogering, and criticizing China with no understanding of the history only distracts us of our responsibility to stopping our own government. If we cannot control Bush, what are we doing trying to control China? Truly remarkable. Media lens has obviously done absolutely no study of the history of Tibet and China. He might as well say that Texas has no territorial relationship with the US. And that the US civil war was a colonial adventure against some independent territories that wanted to keep a large part of their population in servitude.

Tibet was a province of China for hundreds of years-except for the interim between 1911 and 1949, when China itself was essentially colonized by ruthless Western powers who foisted opium on the population against the wishes of the Emperor, driving the country into ruin.

Michael Parenti has a far better documented story at his website. If you are going to be a dissident voice you really need to get the facts straight. The Dalai Lama has been equivocal in his statements about Iraq and apparently has no understanding of the CIA role in creating the Taliban. But he himself is well documented as receiving CIA funding. Doesn’t make him a bad person. He has a lot of good things to say, but his relationship to the CIA and the Tibetan clergy’s history of maltreatment and exploitation should have been addressed in the article. China in Tibet vs US in Iraq is a non comparison.

The Dalai Lama’s feel good behavior to Bush gives me pause, I certainly understand his stance of unconditional kindness –even towards a war criminal– but he at a minimum is being used by Bush. I think it highly possible that the Left in the US, which is sympathetic to the Tibetans and the Dalai Lama are being deliberately misdirected.

The first priority is to stop US warmogering, and criticizing China with no understanding of the history only distracts us of our responsibility to stopping our own government. If we cannot control Bush, what are we doing trying to control China?

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