It is impossible not to note the clear facts regarding longevity, illnesses, incarceration, income, violent deaths and on and on; that are correlated to being a minority, to being an African American, and to be an African American male.

These statistics are powerfully consistent and irrefutable as best I can tell. In a word, we have racism in America. But racism is an abstraction because there are many white people who suffer in similar ways. So, it is not that all blacks suffer from these statistics but it appears than more blacks than whites.

For some it is best to think of this as systemic racism rather than a collective white on black racism. To get to the “hearts and minds” of people can be impenetrable. A systemic approach changes the dynamics and as they say “the hearts and minds will follow”; or at least the conditions will reduce the symptoms. But will racism ever really go away? Some form of discrimination seems inevitable.

But even with what we have - a systemic view - when the dust settles, we see that the lack of solidarity between these whites and blacks given their shared conditions is astounding. Where are the community organizatizers and activists, the labor organizers with regard to poor and disenfranchanised Americans? How about extending that to world-wide. Poor whites have more in common with people in Latin America than they do with many in the burbs of the US.

Obama may have experienced some discrimination and haven’t most white people as well - perhaps not because of their being white. But he is not part of the numbers touted as exemplifying racism. Racism is about an elite oppressing a non-elite. How was Obama oppressed?

While we can remember and should the legacy of slavery, it tells us nothing about how we take our next step. A system that colonizes it’s cities and perpetuates a numbing social service system that creates invalids of the people who live there, needs to be understood in terms which terminates the condition, not a rotation of the same phrases as if shouting racism will change a thing.

Max (:

“Very well. If there’s anyone still present whom I’ve failed to insult, I apologize. Cheers!”

–Frederick Douglass, talking about black slaves and poor whites

I agree with him, and I think one can say the same thing about racism today.
Rich whites benefit from racism. They can pay their black workers less, and use racism to bust unions to pay all their workers less, etc. Yes, you have a lot of poor and working class white people who are racist, and that racism needs to be opposed. But where does the racism come from? Which class did it originate from? Did poor whites make the laws, own the printing presses, design the curriculum in the schools, preach from the pulpit, sit in the halls of government, etc.? No. A lot of them bought into and still buy into a system of racism that is against their material interests, although obviously to a lesser extent than blacks, but against their interests nonetheless.

How about we shift the focus towards how we can realistically build a movement against racism? Say all the white people, the majority of whom are working class, sacrifice (give up their privilege, etc.)? Will that make blacks any better off? How? On the other hand, I can see, both in a possible future and in the history books, examples of making arguments to working class whites and blacks that both will be better able to improve their lot if they band together, oppose racism, and organize. Don’t let racists off the hook, but don’t assume that the interests of working class blacks and whites are opposed, either.

It’s not going off the deep end to assume that our govt is capable of this. There are a million of articles on this site how the US govt did this or that dastardly thing abroad — and they did. But all of a sudden, it’s going off the deep end to question where AIDS came from and how it spread so rapidly. And yes, there is no direct proof for the AIDS thing, I agree. And yes, of course, the AIDS epidemic did not just affect the blacks — maybe the Rev. was referring to anyone who’s downtrodden.

But yes, the response to the crisis was severely delayed. So, no, they didn’t put it in the food (who said they did), but maybe it was the case of “benign” (or not so benign) neglect. And it would perfectly go with the aims of the crazies here who are obsessed about sex, about denying sex or any pleasure to those not rich enough, and to using sex as a weapon to divide and subjugate the populace, as they are continuing to do. The same crazies who pushed us into Iraq, etc.. And they’ve shown and are continuing to show that they can effect incredible destruction here and abroad.

Let’s not forget the lynching parties, the black barbecues, that the common folk participated in, even after the slavery was abolished. Let’s not forget the back of the bus policies. And what happened to those — black and white, who tried to oppose the system in the 60s. Let’s not forget all those white people — none of them rich, lining up in front of that school to prevent those black kids from attending. And nowadays, there are all kinds of coded messages that are racist, that politicians use, and esp. down south that seems to be almost a requirement to get elected. What can be made of the draconian sentences for possession of crack cocaine (used by blacks), vs. the lenient ones for the powder cocaine (used by whites); the constant stories of police shootings, etc. In Washington, DC, it’s mostly the blacks who are the victims of gun violence, and they’re the vast majority of the population, while the whites (living in gated communities) complain to the Supreme Court about the restrictive gun laws.

From my own personal experience — I don’t know how many times I’ve heard racist jokes or horrible, hateful, bigoted things from the white people I came accross. In college, chance acquaintances, neighbors — without any provocation by me. Why would they think I’d enjoy hearing this, other than being white, like them? And I can tell you, the poor people seem to be more bigoted than others, maybe it makes them feel OK to look down on someone.

This is not to maintain that everything Bro. Glen writes is the correct line gospel that can’t be questioned. I myself complained to him about what I thought was over-enthusiasm about Dennis Kucinich; then I thought, well, maybe I was being a lil hasty on the basis of not much knowledge of DK himself, esp. since Cynthia had a gd word for him. Now lately he seems to have subsided back into relative obscurity, so I’m reserving judgment till it makes any diff.
Not sure when I started reading Blk Commontater; don’t remember any Dean stuff, but if he did praise Dean & I’d heard about it, I’d have took issue with him on that. I dunno, how intelligent people can buy into creeps like Dean & David Cobb when it’s so obvious who they are, it’s all over their faces: Cop! Kleagle Manque! Look Out! Hide de crystal ball by de fence, so dey woan fine no evydense!
I mean some them liars, it’s not obvious what they angle is right off, but Howard Dean? come on.

Anyway, a fact is, that African Americans along with Native Americans are the target of organized campaign of Genocide in the US. Course they been killen off many Injuns as poss since Clumbust saled the Ocean Blue, but they put a value on African/Black labor power. Up to recently; now they got no use for Surplus Labor, got more than they can use. Why train/educate a US Black to do a job when you can get somebody trained at the expense of the Gov’t of Pakistan, Gujarat, Ireland, Yugoslavia, P. I. etc etc. Why hire Blacks to wash cars when you can have “illegals” do it for half the $$.

Blacks are 12pct of the USian pop. but are half the Homeless. Visit yr local Sallie, see who’s there. Yes, they locken up a lotta Latinos too, Indans even more, lotta pore wyts too. They doen a lotta up-locken, period. So far they more restrained than the CCP which is more into firing squads than Pelican Bays, but it’s just as insane. Aim seems to be a Guantanamo in ever county.

Every black person is well aware that Black Usians are a target like never before. Even a slave was considered too valuable to destroy if you didn’t have to. But now a Black life is less than worthless, it’s a nuisance.

Anybody don’t realize that fact has been keepen to their Own Kind too much. Spenden too much time lissenin to White Lefties and Greens.

Yes, other groups are also oppressed. Old wyt beatnixes have a hard time getten decent false teeth. But no groups has been designated for Elimination, period, but Blacks & Natives.

But it’s interesting, this here phread: one post Max has A right, but B is fucked up, next time he’s got B right on but A is just silly.

Max, hp, deadbeat, first one then the other. You guys tryna drive me nuts?

This ER Bills I put in the same category as the late unlamented “Jaime”, remember him? LOL:) M. McNiven is not as colorful but equally off the wall. In my oh-so-humble Opinion, which Lincoln having Freed The Slaves, I have a right to express, right? Thank you:) No seegar, Mr McN.

Well, wich I cd go over each mistatement one by one, but got other things to do.

Well, maybe eventually all these well intended and by no means totally stupid folks will all get turned heading in the same direction. Hopefully I’ll be able to keep up, at least for a while:)

Once the Dem field faded to two, all differences faded. There is no disagreement on anything meaningful. So, if you hate Hillary for her positions, the mirror image is Barack Obama. They are both a product of the same system; slight makeover in style as if that matters. McCain is the mad hatter. But the problem is not McCain, it’s what the Dems got out of their primary - bobbsy twins on policy. Nader is the alternative for sure or McKinney. I really believe that people want nothing to do with the 3 of these pols but elections aren’t about that.

Obama is not hope, he’s not change. He has yet to display courage when faced with the opportunities he’s been presented. As such he is a very paltry candidate indeed. Loosing sight of that is a mistake; and if Mr. Ford can keep that in front of some of us of a while all the better!

Howard Dean?

Wow. You sure put me in my place.

I am in agreement that Ford’s critique is valuable identifying Obama’s neoliberalism however Ford, when he wrote for Black Commentator, supported Howard Dean’s campaign after he addressed race during his campaign in 2004. Thus why did Ford rave over Howard Dean but is stringently critical of Obama? Ford didn’t consider backing Ralph Nader in 2004 nor has BC thrown any real support to both Nader or even McKinney.

Ford demands and critique about Obama are IMO extremely unrealistic and to some degree tiring since we all know that Obama is running for POTUS. What does he expect? You have bend over for Zionism, you have to salute the flag, you have to kiss babies and kiss ass. So what is Ford really offering as solutions? Lesser evilism is a reality and if the election had come down to Clinton vs McCain, the neo-con agenda was the real winner anyway and the real plan.

I don’t think Ford should change and run to support Obama but why the hypocrisy? Was Dean any different from Obama? Dean didn’t have a universal health care plan either. There really is no difference between Dean and Obama only that Obama has gotten much further than Dean this time around.

Ford and BAR has also been very tepid on the issue of Zionism within the U.S. In fact I’d say that Rev. Wright spoke more truth about Zionism as a problem inside the U.S. than anything I’ve read from Ford. They, like the ISO, isolate their critique of Zionism as an Israeli problem rather than examining it as a U.S. problem. Perhaps if they took a more radical position and really pushed the issue against their white counterparts on the left who pursue the “War for Oil” rhetoric then they would be taking a much bolder position. The issue of race is about ALL form of discrimination and attacking all form of supremacist thinking. This is what Rev. Wright spoke about in his “God Damn America” sermon.

IMO if Ford is going to profess consistency from Obama he should also display it in HIS rhetoric as well.

Beyond that it’s a case by case thing. If Ford goes off the deep end and thinks white people are the devils work (and he may think that) or that HIV was put into Black people’s food supply as part of a white conspiracy then…all bets are off. I try not to run with idiots and lunatics (at least not for long) regardless of pigment.

Racism is like a religious war. It will end when the participants on all sides are thoroughly exhausted. Until then Oprah seems to be doing ok.

IMO Blacks need to build alliances especially with Latinos since they are facing discrimination and racism and face similar historical oppression. African American needs to link up with black Latinos especially.

Clearly there has always been “white [male] privilege” but the degree of the privilege gap is a much more modern problem. I would recommending reading the book “When Affirmative Action Was White”. The gap between whites and blacks increased dramatically AFTER WWII.

In order for Roosevelt to pass Social Security for example certain job categories that were primarily filled blacks were omitted. Black were denied many of the benefits from the GI Bill. In other words in order to smash the working class after WWII, the rulers not only bribed the working class but also split the working class by races. So the ruling class bought off whites.

I think the issue of “white privilege” by writers like Ford misses is the real point and their rhetoric become more divisive than informative. The real issue is working class manipulation by the rulers. What the white working class is now facing is a rollback of their “privilege” and this is why they have “resentments”.

I think it is counterproductive for Blacks to be demanding an “equal access” to receding “privilege” that whites have are receding and continue to recede.

I think Blacks going forward needs a different strategy. African American only represent 12% of the population and Latinos are growing in numbers. Therefore I think that Blacks will need to find ways to form alliances with Latinos especially black Latinos and other oppressed groups.

At this point whites will have to on their own recognize the false opiate of race. Perhaps that realization will occur as their economic fortunes continues to sour or perhaps not. There ultimate problem is the lack of working class awareness among whites who were fed nationalism and racism as replacements.