The following , also, is for those who care about the Palestinians in this 2008 selection!

“Obama: I’m a ’stalwart friend’ of Israel, its security is ’sacrosanct’ :
Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama on Tuesday stressed his “stalwart” support for Israel and his ties to American Jews, during a presidential debate with rival candidate Hillary Clinton.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/958748.html“

What are they supposed to do? March into the sea?

I wish to supply an excerpt from a project that I am working on publishing on Zionism and Israeli Palestinian affairs.

“In terms of Israel’s presently and historically blatant disregard for Palestinian lives, there goes with this disregard an understanding amongst the financiers of Palestinian violence that whatsoever may be deemed the most profitable actualization of violence, there the industry will follow. Many of these financial interests are carried out and arranged by protected, elite individuals who maintain the systematic perpetration of violence against Palestinians for purposes related to the achievement of an idealized, pure utopic state of like types; for these elite Zionists, the exercise of power against people(s) who are the embodied barrier preventing the realization of this potential state of like types is an exercise in divine supplication. Thus, the disregard for Palestinian life, is part and parcel to their possibilistic infatuation with a divine reality that is subliminally, eternally relegated to the realm of the Eschaton. To realize Zion, an end of times must be realized as well. This is largely why those in the highest positions of power have a vested interest in utilizing their instruments of influence for the attainment of
‘that which is not yet’; power only begets the fixation of more power until there is no longer the lusting need for the use of power. In an economic age where power correlates to profit, and war and genocide against the embodied barrier is not only a necessary measure for the attainment of Zion, but war and genocide itself continues to supply profit for the envisagement of the End of Days, then violence, genocide and systematic oppression become testaments of ritualistic, divinely ordained sanctity in the few eyes who sustain the Zionist vision.”

I trust you all will supply feedback.

I just wanted to say that I agree with your conclusions and observed that we are just getting to the same page from varying directions and experiences.

Kudos to you as well,
Deadbeat

There are two kind of persons that can be seen expresing the kind of opinions you express:
1. The evil kind of people
2. The terminally ignorant kind of people
Combinations are allowed.

are you 1 or 2, jaime?

Joe

Also, for those who understand that imperialisim is as lethal as war, Nader and McKinney represent the existence of options :
http://www.counterpunch.org/christison03012008.html

LOL — look who’s talking, Mr Intemperate himself:)

Maha, I want to thank you for injecting a sense of reality into the discussion. & you can say that again, too.

Re “jaimey”: recommend everybody, when you see his name just keep on scrollin’. You can’t debate with these idiots, waste of time. Save your sawdust* for people who are somewhat open to reason.

* “Kay Twasses? Watcha doin’?”

“I’m thinking”.

“Thought I smelled sawdust burning!”

Okay, all seriousness aside… We are considering presidential politics in the US of A & the current crop of “mainstream” canditutes, along with three/four names seen as Out of the Mainstream: Nader, Kucinich, Gonzalez, McKinney.
At 73, everyday I realize anew how vast is the realm of Stuff I Don’t Understand. Example: today was watching on C-Span, interview w/one Dr. McWhorter of Jersey City (make him a neighbor of Glen Ford;), who at the age of 42 has wrote 12 bks, speaks Ingles, German, French, Spanish, reads newspapers in Russian, can get around in Itagliano, Portuguese, is starting to learn Pei-hua (which he called “Mandarin”).
Of course he’s full of shit, thinks there’s no racism involved in current Ethnic Cleansing of New Orleans, Katrina an Act of God etc. But “sheeyit” as it says on the subtitles to Seven Samurai, I have a son older than this guy. How did he accomplish all this in that time? He also has pretty good grasp of Jazz, Euro music, knows Hiphop well enough to dispute Rap critics. Which to me is more Terra Incognita.

But I also am absolutely positively sure that I now know a cpl things I once didn’t understand at all. Among same are Dumbocrat-Rethuglican presidential politics & candidates.

It’s really simple: nobody gets any serious consideration, donations, airtime, favorable coverage unless they have been thoroughly vetted by the Capitalist Imperal Ruling Class and found 100% reliable.

The differently-nuanced positions espoused have absolutely nothing to do with what they may or may not do once in office. Such mouthings have to do with Marketing, not with policy.

They are careful to provide a candidate packaged to appeal to every significant Market Niche. Thus we saw the inclusion of Mr Kucinich in 2004, and again early on this time around. It seems he revealed himself to be somewhat less reliable than thought, so he has been dropped like a hot spud.
Seems they anticipated this might happen, so they included a backup, Sen. Gravel. It seems his services are becoming superfluous too, given the momentum generated by Obamarama.

Obama: for lefties, radicals, “progressives”, he’s the big problem. Antiwar, pro-Singlepayer, anti-Mass Incarceration activists/voters arent going to be attracted to McCain or that git-tar picken’ Kleagle Manque, wassisname, Hucklebuck? Artillery Hillery is wearing thinner & thinner even with Liberal Feminists. But Obama keeps picking up steam.
Obamania is everywhere in the ‘Hood, all the bookstores, galleries, coffee places, barbershops. beauty parlors. The only visible Black American activists in this town are committed Democrats, “Progressive/PDA” & the more traditional kind. All the local Progressive Professors I know of are PDA/DSA supporters/members.

On the plus side, Obamism, or as one friend puts it, “Obamismalism”, has been & is being subjected to a great deal of high quality Deconstruction, from Bruce Dixon, Margaret Kimberley & Glen Ford in Blk Agenda Rprt, to Josh Frank, Alex Cockburn, Pam Martens in CounterPunch. to PSL & Richard Becker, to former GP candidate/now Cynthia endorser Jared Ball, to Matt Gonzalez and others.

So at this pt, I see the main task on the Obama Front to be one of delivering such deconstructivating information to the grassroots ghetto people, the kind of people who formed the base of the Panther Party? Most I think tend to be swept along in the tide of Obamania sweeping down from the pulpits, the NAACP, Blk Demo. officeholders, bread-buttering “community leaders” etc — but there is a stratum of those who don’t buy anything that wears a suit or a new car. No way to estimate how substantial is this “rejectionist” stratum or strain at present, but get out there, pass out some litature & get some feedback.

I plan do some that, Congregaten spot right round corner from my pad, using C McKinney fliers. Problem: no pitcher on these GP-produced items. Preponderance of color lite Green. But sthg else, w/a pitcher the candidate is needed ASAP. & some younger peeps to do the runnen round.
However IMO my own main assignment at the moment is to help fellow radicalistic folks sort out the choices to be made between the various non-Duopoly candidates: Nader, McKinney, Gonzalez, PSL’s Gloria La Riva, CA P&F’s Stewart Alexander. Are there any others?

Before we tackle that, we’d better get clear on why we’re involving ourselves in supporting a candidate who is, shall we say, not an odds-on favorite to win the whole thing in November? At best a long-long-longshot, & even that requires so much Suspension of Disbelief… Okay, let me be candid: why support a candidate who isn’t going to win? Who has the proverbial snowball’s chance — or less — of actually being elected?
At this pt I think I’ll take a Pause for the Cause, run this up the DV flagpole, see if any monkeys wrap tails around it?

Before I go, props to Max, DB, hp for advancing the discussn, & more props to Bro. Maha (which means Great, in Buddhissism;)

OK, I’m
Aot!

There hasn’t been any negotiation in over 7 years and even then it’s not been in good faith. Kucinich is looking for the at. Or do you suggest the US invade? Necons like you just love to do that.

Oh that’s right you’re not a necon just a head up his/her arse blogger.

Kucinich at the Arab American Institute
“So my plan would be to achieve that, and to work towards that. And I think the United States can help to foster that. The United States can help to foster a negotiating structure, where we get both parties to agree on the sharing of water rights, because water rights can be the basis of further conflict, and they can also be the basis of further cooperation. And we must use our influence in construction a negotiating climate, where we can move towards getting the parties to agree to share water rights. So, too, we must move forward to create a circumstance where the parties will understand that the security of one depends on the security of the other, and there must be mutual agreements to provide security. And as we foster that kind of climate for negotiations, we can then enable the parties to come to those decisions which truly Israelis and Palestinians must be able to resolve on their own, and that we cannot force a decision on these matters of borders and right of return. I think we can create a climate to cause the parties to resolve those issues.”

Kucinich understands how neogtiation works and that the US role is one of supporting the process not dictating the terms. And then (Kucinich):

“There’s a few other things the United States can and must do, and we must do them now. We must use our considerable influence with Israel to ask Israel to stop building walls, ask Israel to tear down the walls, ask Israel to not participate in the building of any new settlements, because we have to recognize that in order to achieve peace we must stop anything that smacks of isolation, or of creating conditions which will make it that much more difficult to achieve a peaceful agreement. We must come from a place where we understand that we’re all brothers and sisters, and when our brothers are killing each other, I believe it’s for us to try to create circumstances where we can help heal both, so that both may live together and exist peacefully.”

I would not expect a US President to say he wants to dismantle the state of Israel. I do expect the kind of stand that Kucinich made in the Congressional Chambers.

You mean like a majority of Jews agreeing with the description of Arab-Israelis as being “Unclean” and a majority of Jews admitting they wouldn’t live in the same building as an Arab-Israeli? Yes this is very typical of discriminatory views. BTW, discrimination is telling unlike things apart…this is more like prejudice and racism…

This (http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=15130) is a big problem. Without ROR there is no peace in that region; regardless of whether there is a two state or one state resolve.