Comments on: The False US Economy Versus Nature’s Expansion-Contraction Cycle http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Tue, 07 Oct 2008 06:16:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: George Kinde http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13485 George Kinde Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:27:56 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13485 Greybeard said, "Who will do the vast re-educational project necessary to re-align expectations with Reality?" Don Hawkins responded with, " And who will do the vast re-educational project necessary to re-align expectations with Reality? The Earth" I must agree that Mother Earth (or Mother Nature) is a great teacher. However, she can take a long time to reach her students. I have always thought of myself as a naturalist and have had a great interest in nature even as a kid. Growing up in the city, I enjoyed academic "book learning", would visit the family farm and go "up north" quite frequently. But until I moved to a swampy, wooded, 40 acre lot near a federal forest, and lived there for about five years, did Nature's lessons really sink in. At a certain point my eyes truly opened and I could finally "see the forest". After ten years I can now ever "hear" it and better understand the language (which is like body or sign language if you will). In addition, the economy in this area is quite poor and is mostly based on tourism which follows the seasons. I’ve had lessons learned there as well. I plan on talking more with our Amish neighbors to help complete my education. Perhaps I was slower to learn than most and some folks might get it in less time than I did. Greybeard said, “Who will do the vast re-educational project necessary to re-align expectations with Reality?”

Don Hawkins responded with, ” And who will do the vast re-educational project necessary to re-align expectations with Reality? The Earth”

I must agree that Mother Earth (or Mother Nature) is a great teacher. However, she can take a long time to reach her students. I have always thought of myself as a naturalist and have had a great interest in nature even as a kid. Growing up in the city, I enjoyed academic “book learning”, would visit the family farm and go “up north” quite frequently. But until I moved to a swampy, wooded, 40 acre lot near a federal forest, and lived there for about five years, did Nature’s lessons really sink in. At a certain point my eyes truly opened and I could finally “see the forest”. After ten years I can now ever “hear” it and better understand the language (which is like body or sign language if you will). In addition, the economy in this area is quite poor and is mostly based on tourism which follows the seasons. I’ve had lessons learned there as well. I plan on talking more with our Amish neighbors to help complete my education. Perhaps I was slower to learn than most and some folks might get it in less time than I did.

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13481 Don Hawkins Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:00:36 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13481 Mulga thank you. A perfect example of leave it to the market is what is happening now. Hard choices, no fools gold. In Washington the policy makers are now working together to save the economy. The thing they can't face is the hard choices needed to slow climate change and work together on that one. Why well maybe it's to big. Bigger than them. Mulga thank you. A perfect example of leave it to the market is what is happening now. Hard choices, no fools gold. In Washington the policy makers are now working together to save the economy. The thing they can’t face is the hard choices needed to slow climate change and work together on that one. Why well maybe it’s to big. Bigger than them.

]]> By: Mulga Mumblebrain http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13480 Mulga Mumblebrain Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:40:21 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13480 What a euphonious appellation Shepherd! Bliss, the very nearly most divine word in the English language. How nice to hear you utilise permaculture, Australia's greatest ever gift to humanity (after Don Bradman) created by that lovable scalliwag and righteous curmudgeon Bill Mollison. My garden is dying, as this neck of the woods dries out. It seems the tropics are expanding, driving warm water further south, which is pushing our rain bearing westerly changes to the south of the continent. Such a shame. The great red-gums are dropping branches and many are dying. The change is not, alas, temporary. This is not the eternal rhythm of the seasons, nor even the recurring ebb and flow of ice ages. This is human stupidity and hubris, bringing a dreadful Nemesis. It will, so I read, take hundreds of millenia, if not longer, to reverse the damage of a couple of hundred years. We are forcing the sixth mass extinction, possibly including ourselves, on the rest of creation. How sad your sage reflections are followed by Cawdor's Market Fundamentalist lunacy. Forgive me Cawdor, but arguing that we should 'leave it to the Market' ,in our current predicament, is rather like putting Dracula in charge of the bloodbank while there is a shortage of blood. The Market knows only one language, that of gain, and only one modus operandi, continual, carcinogenic,metastatic growth, which as we all know, equates to certain death on a finite planet. What a euphonious appellation Shepherd! Bliss, the very nearly most divine word in the English language. How nice to hear you utilise permaculture, Australia’s greatest ever gift to humanity (after Don Bradman) created by that lovable scalliwag and righteous curmudgeon Bill Mollison. My garden is dying, as this neck of the woods dries out. It seems the tropics are expanding, driving warm water further south, which is pushing our rain bearing westerly changes to the south of the continent. Such a shame. The great red-gums are dropping branches and many are dying. The change is not, alas, temporary. This is not the eternal rhythm of the seasons, nor even the recurring ebb and flow of ice ages. This is human stupidity and hubris, bringing a dreadful Nemesis. It will, so I read, take hundreds of millenia, if not longer, to reverse the damage of a couple of hundred years. We are forcing the sixth mass extinction, possibly including ourselves, on the rest of creation. How sad your sage reflections are followed by Cawdor’s Market Fundamentalist lunacy. Forgive me Cawdor, but arguing that we should ‘leave it to the Market’ ,in our current predicament, is rather like putting Dracula in charge of the bloodbank while there is a shortage of blood. The Market knows only one language, that of gain, and only one modus operandi, continual, carcinogenic,metastatic growth, which as we all know, equates to certain death on a finite planet.

]]> By: Cawdor http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13416 Cawdor Tue, 22 Jan 2008 03:50:57 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13416 Natural cycle of economics = the free market The socialization of the economy by the Federal Government and the unregulated, unaudited, and illegal Federal Reserve has caused 2 bubbles in 10 years ...... This artificial management of the economy must cease The free market is natural in that competition withers out the weak and creates new niches for new businesses to be created and so forth. This socialization which prevents businesses to fail when they need to stifles innovation, motivation , competition, and profitability. We cannot keep propping an economy that will not let the bloated auto manufacturers, airlines, financial service providers fail. They get more money from subsidies our tax dollars provide then the profits of actually managing a business. The removal of government interference is like removing a strangling weed off the tree of the free market This will allow that tree to grow and to let the cycle of failure, and rebirth to begin again. Things come and go but there has always been a need for a market to provide the best product at the lowest prices. Natural cycle of economics = the free market

The socialization of the economy by the Federal Government and the unregulated, unaudited, and illegal Federal Reserve has caused 2 bubbles in 10 years …… This artificial management of the economy must cease

The free market is natural in that competition withers out the weak and creates new niches for new businesses to be created and so forth.

This socialization which prevents businesses to fail when they need to stifles innovation, motivation , competition, and profitability.

We cannot keep propping an economy that will not let the bloated auto manufacturers, airlines, financial service providers fail.

They get more money from subsidies our tax dollars provide then the profits of actually managing a business.

The removal of government interference is like removing a strangling weed off the tree of the free market

This will allow that tree to grow and to let the cycle of failure, and rebirth to begin again.

Things come and go but there has always been a need for a market to provide the best product at the lowest prices.

]]> By: Dbob http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13413 Dbob Tue, 22 Jan 2008 01:08:47 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13413 sooner or later there will not be fuel required to sustain growth. the real discussion should be "How do we survive the landing?" "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. " - Kenneth Boulding sooner or later there will not be fuel required to sustain growth. the real discussion should be “How do we survive the landing?”
“Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. ” - Kenneth Boulding

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13403 Don Hawkins Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:13:03 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13403 These cold temperatures in Russia and snow in Baghdad etc. What do you think. I sent that e-mail to one of the best people in the World on climate his answer. Weather is NOT climate. The natural variability between seasons at a site is typically larger than the global warming that has happened so far, so that while many more record highs than lows are being set, record lows do occasionally happen still. The 1 degree or so of global warming is scientifically unequivocal but still not highly evident unless you’re paying attention; the changes coming under business as usual are much bigger, and will be evident to everyone. And who will do the vast re-educational project necessary to re-align expectations with Reality? The Earth These cold temperatures in Russia and snow in Baghdad etc. What do you think.

I sent that e-mail to one of the best people in the World on climate his answer.

Weather is NOT climate. The natural variability between seasons at a site is typically larger than the global warming that has happened so far, so that while many more record highs than lows are being set, record lows do occasionally happen still. The 1 degree or so of global warming is scientifically unequivocal but still not highly evident unless you’re paying attention; the changes coming under business as usual are much bigger, and will be evident to everyone.

And who will do the vast re-educational project necessary to re-align expectations with Reality? The Earth

]]> By: greybeard http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13389 greybeard Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:05:14 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-false-us-economy-versus-nature%e2%80%99s-expansion-contraction-cycle/#comment-13389 Well said!! The adolescent American electorate will scream however, when deprived of their i-Pods, cell phones, and plastic bags. Who will do the vast re-educational project necessary to re-align expectations with Reality? Well said!! The adolescent American electorate will scream however, when deprived of their i-Pods, cell phones, and plastic bags. Who will do the vast re-educational project necessary to re-align expectations with Reality?

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