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	<title>Comments on: Edwards Reconsidered</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Campaign &#8216;08: Democrats &#171; Hope2012</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12340</link>
		<dc:creator>Campaign &#8216;08: Democrats &#171; Hope2012</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12340</guid>
		<description>[...] Edwards Reconsidered after Kucinich sell out (Dissident Voice 1/3/08) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Edwards Reconsidered after Kucinich sell out (Dissident Voice 1/3/08) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12231</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12231</guid>
		<description>Correction Counterpunch http://www.counterpunch.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction Counterpunch <a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.counterpunch.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12229</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12229</guid>
		<description>From the Black Agenda Report on Obama: http://www.blackagendareport.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the Black Agenda Report on Obama: <a href="http://www.blackagendareport.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.blackagendareport.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12228</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12228</guid>
		<description>Counterpoint (By Alexander Cockburn
and Jeffery St. Clair) is falling all over its self (to bad that site is so arrogant they avoid post boards like this to keep it a one way con-versation) with the notion that Obama has just landed a blow to the Dem machine!!

So, who are his advisors? And what exactly has Obama said that makes him so different from Hillary?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Counterpoint (By Alexander Cockburn<br />
and Jeffery St. Clair) is falling all over its self (to bad that site is so arrogant they avoid post boards like this to keep it a one way con-versation) with the notion that Obama has just landed a blow to the Dem machine!!</p>
<p>So, who are his advisors? And what exactly has Obama said that makes him so different from Hillary?</p>
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		<title>By: Hue Longer</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12220</link>
		<dc:creator>Hue Longer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12220</guid>
		<description>JMS, support is support---that's why so many are pissed at Nader</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JMS, support is support&#8212;that&#8217;s why so many are pissed at Nader</p>
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		<title>By: JMS</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12218</link>
		<dc:creator>JMS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 04:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12218</guid>
		<description>I could be wrong,  but I don't think he said that he's supporting Edwards - he just said that he supports him over the other candidates, especially Hillary. Nader kind of did the same thing in 04 with Kucinich.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could be wrong,  but I don&#8217;t think he said that he&#8217;s supporting Edwards - he just said that he supports him over the other candidates, especially Hillary. Nader kind of did the same thing in 04 with Kucinich.</p>
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		<title>By: Hue Longer</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12215</link>
		<dc:creator>Hue Longer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 02:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12215</guid>
		<description>Thanks Max,

I second that recommendation to read or listen to the Allan Nairn segment.  Edwards may be making foes (seemingly anyways) with corporate special interests, but certainly not Military interests.

This lessor evil of the lessor evils trick that Soloman is buying or selling shouldn't work on anyone who watched Kucinich not make one demand or appeal for platform as he bent over for the DNC in 04----I predict Paul will do the same

No man owns the truth---just because someone with face time gets to say what most here seem to know, doesn't mean he owns it and that he should be given mercy for betraying any or all aspects of it.

If Cindy Sheehan tomorrow said that she was considering taking impeachment off her table and invited Edwards to eat at it, I'd say forget her too...

Screw Dennis, I don't care that he talks a better game than Howard Dean, the results are the same and it's amazing that anyone is talking in glowing terms at all about Edwards or Gore (C'mon Nader, what hypocritical bullshit to support Edwards after everything you railed against Chomsky for doing to you)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Max,</p>
<p>I second that recommendation to read or listen to the Allan Nairn segment.  Edwards may be making foes (seemingly anyways) with corporate special interests, but certainly not Military interests.</p>
<p>This lessor evil of the lessor evils trick that Soloman is buying or selling shouldn&#8217;t work on anyone who watched Kucinich not make one demand or appeal for platform as he bent over for the DNC in 04&#8212;-I predict Paul will do the same</p>
<p>No man owns the truth&#8212;just because someone with face time gets to say what most here seem to know, doesn&#8217;t mean he owns it and that he should be given mercy for betraying any or all aspects of it.</p>
<p>If Cindy Sheehan tomorrow said that she was considering taking impeachment off her table and invited Edwards to eat at it, I&#8217;d say forget her too&#8230;</p>
<p>Screw Dennis, I don&#8217;t care that he talks a better game than Howard Dean, the results are the same and it&#8217;s amazing that anyone is talking in glowing terms at all about Edwards or Gore (C&#8217;mon Nader, what hypocritical bullshit to support Edwards after everything you railed against Chomsky for doing to you)</p>
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		<title>By: dan elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12211</link>
		<dc:creator>dan elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 01:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12211</guid>
		<description>-----Original Message----- 
From: cuibono 
Sent: Jan 3, 2008 1:56 PM 
To: Nixdaz Iodemz 

When oh when will some of our "progressive" editors get wise that Norman Solomon is a fink? That he was a key promoter of the "ABB**" bs in 2004? and he's pulling the same **** again this time.

Norman Solomon is nice looking, nice wavy hair, a qualified Featured Act in any Society Matron's drawing room. But politically, he's a noxious weed. 

 Yes, he's a really skilled writer; he does write Prose, not typical Journalese. But he's a shill for the other side, for the Status Quo. 

Oh yeah, he writes highly informed whining about the State of the Media. Blah blah, so does everybody else from CJR to CSpan panelists from Harvard. But when it comes to the q. of Power, he's there to see it doesn't stray from the hands of the current Masters of the Universe. 

Jezuzz H Kreist! Here we have this soldout MF busily detecting nuances between bunco pitches offered by the number two &#38; the number three Ruling Class choices to be the next president. How obvious does it have to get that none of these turkeys get to run their rap on primetime TV unless they've been vetted and approved in Tel Aviv, AIPAC hq., and the highest reaches of Wall St*? Gimme a break. 

*(Hmm, wonder who that'd be...?) 

**"Anybody But Bush"

Published on Thursday, January 3, 2008 by CommonDreams.org 
Edwards Reconsidered by Norman Solomon   /// SNIP.

A friend of Cuibono was moved to comment:

From: deleted to avoid copyright issues?
To: cuibono 
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: when will some of our "left" editors get wise...

Norman isn't as much a fink as is Kucinich for his endorsement of Yo Mama. Dennis K has really run a limped wrist campaign. Norman has never disengaged from a system that he naively believes can be corrected. If people still registered Demo are going to vote in the primary, and that's most of the folks left of center (which is not technically left of center as we know it), Edwards's stated positions are far better than H &#38; B's, including rejoining the world court which Obismal would consider after speaking with the generals, given the large numbers of US bases and soldiers stationed around the world, he says, without a mention of what the fuck they are doing there. 

Yeah, in power, the zios would present the bill and Edwards would see that--"what's that?"--yes, he had already signed it. So it goes. 

BTW, thanks for the Jews and Bhutto piece.I am being interviewed by Hisham Tellawi tonight on TV and was going to talk about the Bhutto-Zio connection.//// ----------------------&#62;

(the phrase "limped-wrist"  refers here of course to the Guaguanco Estilo Matanzas, as favored by the clave-supremacist Los Munequitos de Matanzas over the more familiar Estilo LaBana associated with Los Papines. --dan).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8212;&#8211;Original Message&#8212;&#8211;<br />
From: cuibono<br />
Sent: Jan 3, 2008 1:56 PM<br />
To: Nixdaz Iodemz </p>
<p>When oh when will some of our &#8220;progressive&#8221; editors get wise that Norman Solomon is a fink? That he was a key promoter of the &#8220;ABB**&#8221; bs in 2004? and he&#8217;s pulling the same **** again this time.</p>
<p>Norman Solomon is nice looking, nice wavy hair, a qualified Featured Act in any Society Matron&#8217;s drawing room. But politically, he&#8217;s a noxious weed. </p>
<p> Yes, he&#8217;s a really skilled writer; he does write Prose, not typical Journalese. But he&#8217;s a shill for the other side, for the Status Quo. </p>
<p>Oh yeah, he writes highly informed whining about the State of the Media. Blah blah, so does everybody else from CJR to CSpan panelists from Harvard. But when it comes to the q. of Power, he&#8217;s there to see it doesn&#8217;t stray from the hands of the current Masters of the Universe. </p>
<p>Jezuzz H Kreist! Here we have this soldout MF busily detecting nuances between bunco pitches offered by the number two &amp; the number three Ruling Class choices to be the next president. How obvious does it have to get that none of these turkeys get to run their rap on primetime TV unless they&#8217;ve been vetted and approved in Tel Aviv, AIPAC hq., and the highest reaches of Wall St*? Gimme a break. </p>
<p>*(Hmm, wonder who that&#8217;d be&#8230;?) </p>
<p>**&#8221;Anybody But Bush&#8221;</p>
<p>Published on Thursday, January 3, 2008 by CommonDreams.org<br />
Edwards Reconsidered by Norman Solomon   /// SNIP.</p>
<p>A friend of Cuibono was moved to comment:</p>
<p>From: deleted to avoid copyright issues?<br />
To: cuibono<br />
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:36 PM<br />
Subject: Re: when will some of our &#8220;left&#8221; editors get wise&#8230;</p>
<p>Norman isn&#8217;t as much a fink as is Kucinich for his endorsement of Yo Mama. Dennis K has really run a limped wrist campaign. Norman has never disengaged from a system that he naively believes can be corrected. If people still registered Demo are going to vote in the primary, and that&#8217;s most of the folks left of center (which is not technically left of center as we know it), Edwards&#8217;s stated positions are far better than H &amp; B&#8217;s, including rejoining the world court which Obismal would consider after speaking with the generals, given the large numbers of US bases and soldiers stationed around the world, he says, without a mention of what the fuck they are doing there. </p>
<p>Yeah, in power, the zios would present the bill and Edwards would see that&#8211;&#8221;what&#8217;s that?&#8221;&#8211;yes, he had already signed it. So it goes. </p>
<p>BTW, thanks for the Jews and Bhutto piece.I am being interviewed by Hisham Tellawi tonight on TV and was going to talk about the Bhutto-Zio connection.//// &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-&gt;</p>
<p>(the phrase &#8220;limped-wrist&#8221;  refers here of course to the Guaguanco Estilo Matanzas, as favored by the clave-supremacist Los Munequitos de Matanzas over the more familiar Estilo LaBana associated with Los Papines. &#8211;dan).</p>
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		<title>By: HR</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12209</link>
		<dc:creator>HR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 00:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12209</guid>
		<description>This article is a good example of why I don't look to the opinions of "leaders" in making my choices any more than I look to hucksters in the fascist media, including newspapers.  "Leaders" are too willing to sell out, and then expect others to follow them in their "wise" choices.  This fellow has every right to an opinion, and I have every right to consider it so much trash.  Such articles and thinking remind me all too well of the attitudes during the antiwar movement of the Vietnam years.  Then, too, we had "leaders", leaders who sold us out by supporting wishy-washy types like McCarthy and McGovern (and Kennedy), thereby ensuring that Nixon would get elected, twice, and that the war would continue nearly 10 more years.  If people let others do their thinking for them, then all is surely lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is a good example of why I don&#8217;t look to the opinions of &#8220;leaders&#8221; in making my choices any more than I look to hucksters in the fascist media, including newspapers.  &#8220;Leaders&#8221; are too willing to sell out, and then expect others to follow them in their &#8220;wise&#8221; choices.  This fellow has every right to an opinion, and I have every right to consider it so much trash.  Such articles and thinking remind me all too well of the attitudes during the antiwar movement of the Vietnam years.  Then, too, we had &#8220;leaders&#8221;, leaders who sold us out by supporting wishy-washy types like McCarthy and McGovern (and Kennedy), thereby ensuring that Nixon would get elected, twice, and that the war would continue nearly 10 more years.  If people let others do their thinking for them, then all is surely lost.</p>
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		<title>By: JMS</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12206</link>
		<dc:creator>JMS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 00:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12206</guid>
		<description>Can someone explain to me why Kucinich is backing Obama over Edwards? "But his support for Obama over Edwards indicates that he’s willing to allow some opaque and illogical priorities to trump maximizing the momentum of our common progressive agendas" isn't doing it for me. What are these priorities? What is his rationale here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone explain to me why Kucinich is backing Obama over Edwards? &#8220;But his support for Obama over Edwards indicates that he’s willing to allow some opaque and illogical priorities to trump maximizing the momentum of our common progressive agendas&#8221; isn&#8217;t doing it for me. What are these priorities? What is his rationale here?</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12203</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12203</guid>
		<description>The Democratic Party cannot provide the change (nor its litany of candidates) that we need. It's that simple. 

Check today's Democracy Now segment with Allan Nairn http://www.democracynow.org/

The US policy sanctioned, promoted and enforced by each administration Dem/Repub is murderous. It's pretty hard to find anything to reconsider since these want-a-be commander-in-chiefs have yet to give us any. Kucinich has lost his place as a principled progressive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Democratic Party cannot provide the change (nor its litany of candidates) that we need. It&#8217;s that simple. </p>
<p>Check today&#8217;s Democracy Now segment with Allan Nairn <a href="http://www.democracynow.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.democracynow.org/</a></p>
<p>The US policy sanctioned, promoted and enforced by each administration Dem/Repub is murderous. It&#8217;s pretty hard to find anything to reconsider since these want-a-be commander-in-chiefs have yet to give us any. Kucinich has lost his place as a principled progressive.</p>
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		<title>By: John Halle</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12187</link>
		<dc:creator>John Halle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12187</guid>
		<description>Norman,

While I take issue with what I take to be your overly rose colored view of activism within the DP, I agree with your (provisionally) positive evaluation of the Edwards campaign-if not Edwards himself.

I think what needs to be stressed here is that this is not a matter of principle but of strategy and tactics: the kind of fundamental change we are take for granted as necessary needs to proceed in two steps.  The first is rhetorical; the basic ideas-economic democracy, non-interventionist foreign policy, need to first become mentionable in the mainstream political discourse.  Only after that has occurred will can we move to the second step whereby the ideas find substantive political expression.

It was the genius of Clinton to have reversed this process.  Remember that the platform Clinton was elected on was "putting people first". He then proceeded to govern by the principle "putting corporations first" and by the end of his presidency it was simply impossible to formulate even the mildest, new deal politics and Keynesian economics without appearing as if one was from the planet Mars.  In other words, he began by first killing hope in the political realm, but more damaging eliminating from political discourse the vocabulary necessary to express it.

That said, I agree with Binh that it is quite possible that Edwards motivations are largely if not entirely cynical. Namely, he is trying to parlay the grassroots support for basic political decency into his own advancement. 

But his doing so has the effect of returning to the mainstream discourse ideas which have been altogether unmentionable for over two generations that will count as a victory for us.  It will not be a sufficient condition for us to move forward, but I would argue that it is a necessary one.

John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Norman,</p>
<p>While I take issue with what I take to be your overly rose colored view of activism within the DP, I agree with your (provisionally) positive evaluation of the Edwards campaign-if not Edwards himself.</p>
<p>I think what needs to be stressed here is that this is not a matter of principle but of strategy and tactics: the kind of fundamental change we are take for granted as necessary needs to proceed in two steps.  The first is rhetorical; the basic ideas-economic democracy, non-interventionist foreign policy, need to first become mentionable in the mainstream political discourse.  Only after that has occurred will can we move to the second step whereby the ideas find substantive political expression.</p>
<p>It was the genius of Clinton to have reversed this process.  Remember that the platform Clinton was elected on was &#8220;putting people first&#8221;. He then proceeded to govern by the principle &#8220;putting corporations first&#8221; and by the end of his presidency it was simply impossible to formulate even the mildest, new deal politics and Keynesian economics without appearing as if one was from the planet Mars.  In other words, he began by first killing hope in the political realm, but more damaging eliminating from political discourse the vocabulary necessary to express it.</p>
<p>That said, I agree with Binh that it is quite possible that Edwards motivations are largely if not entirely cynical. Namely, he is trying to parlay the grassroots support for basic political decency into his own advancement. </p>
<p>But his doing so has the effect of returning to the mainstream discourse ideas which have been altogether unmentionable for over two generations that will count as a victory for us.  It will not be a sufficient condition for us to move forward, but I would argue that it is a necessary one.</p>
<p>John</p>
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		<title>By: Binh</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12176</link>
		<dc:creator>Binh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/edwards-reconsidered/#comment-12176</guid>
		<description>Sad to see such a brilliant progressive taken in by Edwards' primary-only sales pitch. His angle is to capture the angry Dems who can't bring themselves to vote for Hillary and her near-political-twin Obama to secure the VP slot for himself.

Kucinich's role is similar, except he'll never get a VP slot. His goal is to pre-empt any anti-war Nader-type third party run. He hopes to repeat his smashing success in 2004 in coopting progressives back into the party that opposes them and all they stand for. He is a shepherd who is preventing the sheep from straying to Greener pastures so that they stay in line for the slaughterhouse.

Hillary/Obama will win the nomination, Edwards and Kucinich will back the winner, and Solomon will follow Edwards and Kucinich and back the pro-war corporate candidate on grounds they are "the lesser evil." We saw how well the lesser-evil strategy worked in '04, I can't wait for the sequel in '08...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sad to see such a brilliant progressive taken in by Edwards&#8217; primary-only sales pitch. His angle is to capture the angry Dems who can&#8217;t bring themselves to vote for Hillary and her near-political-twin Obama to secure the VP slot for himself.</p>
<p>Kucinich&#8217;s role is similar, except he&#8217;ll never get a VP slot. His goal is to pre-empt any anti-war Nader-type third party run. He hopes to repeat his smashing success in 2004 in coopting progressives back into the party that opposes them and all they stand for. He is a shepherd who is preventing the sheep from straying to Greener pastures so that they stay in line for the slaughterhouse.</p>
<p>Hillary/Obama will win the nomination, Edwards and Kucinich will back the winner, and Solomon will follow Edwards and Kucinich and back the pro-war corporate candidate on grounds they are &#8220;the lesser evil.&#8221; We saw how well the lesser-evil strategy worked in &#8216;04, I can&#8217;t wait for the sequel in &#8216;08&#8230;</p>
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