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	<title>Comments on: Surely, If We Believed Life Was Worth Living &#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Seven</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-12973</link>
		<dc:creator>Seven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-12973</guid>
		<description>I like this.  It avoided the pitfall nearly all articles of its likeness fall into - citing "facts" and conspiracy theories that cannot be proven either true or false as its foundation.

Keep writing - I'll keep reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this.  It avoided the pitfall nearly all articles of its likeness fall into - citing &#8220;facts&#8221; and conspiracy theories that cannot be proven either true or false as its foundation.</p>
<p>Keep writing - I&#8217;ll keep reading.</p>
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		<title>By: cris d'angelo</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-12094</link>
		<dc:creator>cris d'angelo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 22:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-12094</guid>
		<description>It's been said that "somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot."
On the other hand, somewhere in Texas this writer cuts straight to the  Truth, missing nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been said that &#8220;somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot.&#8221;<br />
On the other hand, somewhere in Texas this writer cuts straight to the  Truth, missing nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike McNiven</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11620</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike McNiven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 02:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11620</guid>
		<description>Mr.Bills,

May be one solution is identifying and eradicating the problems of the US by applying a Gandhian approach! I think life becomes more "delicious" after that.
He considered the following traits to be the most spiritually harmful to humanity:

Wealth without Work 
Pleasure without Conscience 
Science without Humanity 
Knowledge without Character 
Politics without Principle 
Commerce without Morality 
Worship without Sacrifice</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr.Bills,</p>
<p>May be one solution is identifying and eradicating the problems of the US by applying a Gandhian approach! I think life becomes more &#8220;delicious&#8221; after that.<br />
He considered the following traits to be the most spiritually harmful to humanity:</p>
<p>Wealth without Work<br />
Pleasure without Conscience<br />
Science without Humanity<br />
Knowledge without Character<br />
Politics without Principle<br />
Commerce without Morality<br />
Worship without Sacrifice</p>
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		<title>By: siamdave</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11595</link>
		<dc:creator>siamdave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 17:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11595</guid>
		<description>Some good thoughts, but based on the false premise that you are dealing with freely thinking people. Indoctrinated people do not get to the level of thought you posit here. Get Socrates notion about 'the unexamined life... etc' in here and you might get closer to some answers - it's hard to examine your own life, or much else, when you spend 4.5 hours per day in front of the tv.
They're Building a Box - and You're In It - http://www.rudemacedon.ca/dlp/box/box-intro.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some good thoughts, but based on the false premise that you are dealing with freely thinking people. Indoctrinated people do not get to the level of thought you posit here. Get Socrates notion about &#8216;the unexamined life&#8230; etc&#8217; in here and you might get closer to some answers - it&#8217;s hard to examine your own life, or much else, when you spend 4.5 hours per day in front of the tv.<br />
They&#8217;re Building a Box - and You&#8217;re In It - <a href="http://www.rudemacedon.ca/dlp/box/box-intro.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rudemacedon.ca/dlp/box/box-intro.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: George Thompson</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11546</link>
		<dc:creator>George Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11546</guid>
		<description>Have hope. People are waking up  slowly to the impending disaster brought forth by rabid capitalism. Mother Nature's self-corrective abilities may yet save the planet. First, however, we must save ourselves from ourselves. All it takes is a few million people in Washington DC demanding regime change. All it takes is informed consumers refusing to buy goods and services from companies that buy our government with bribes. 

We have to stop calling the Illuminati a conspiracy and we have to stop saying 9/11 truthers are crazy conspiracy theorists. We have to engage the real reality and not the media created one. There are a group of elite bankers that run the world and want a global police state run under the UN after a 90% depopulation of  the planet. Even the elite realize that this supercapitalism is unsustainable and nobody cares about the elite more than the elite do. We are 6.6 billion. They are a few thousand. 

We have to disband groups like the Council of Foreign Relations, the Carlyle Group, the Freemasons, etc. These people are Satanic megalomaniacs. We have to stop believing that government is good. Government is only as good as the people force it to be. Why do our elected officials need law, medical and business degrees from Ivy League schools. We deserve better. We have made a kakistocracy out of democracy. The whole word sees our lies and hypocrisy and realize that we are just another falling Rome. Pack your bags and head to Washington DC to save the country or pack your bags and leave the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have hope. People are waking up  slowly to the impending disaster brought forth by rabid capitalism. Mother Nature&#8217;s self-corrective abilities may yet save the planet. First, however, we must save ourselves from ourselves. All it takes is a few million people in Washington DC demanding regime change. All it takes is informed consumers refusing to buy goods and services from companies that buy our government with bribes. </p>
<p>We have to stop calling the Illuminati a conspiracy and we have to stop saying 9/11 truthers are crazy conspiracy theorists. We have to engage the real reality and not the media created one. There are a group of elite bankers that run the world and want a global police state run under the UN after a 90% depopulation of  the planet. Even the elite realize that this supercapitalism is unsustainable and nobody cares about the elite more than the elite do. We are 6.6 billion. They are a few thousand. </p>
<p>We have to disband groups like the Council of Foreign Relations, the Carlyle Group, the Freemasons, etc. These people are Satanic megalomaniacs. We have to stop believing that government is good. Government is only as good as the people force it to be. Why do our elected officials need law, medical and business degrees from Ivy League schools. We deserve better. We have made a kakistocracy out of democracy. The whole word sees our lies and hypocrisy and realize that we are just another falling Rome. Pack your bags and head to Washington DC to save the country or pack your bags and leave the country.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11478</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 01:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11478</guid>
		<description>This administration has done all it can do to stop any progress on climate change.  Following scientists from NASA to make sure they didn't say anything wrong.  Changing reports.  Making sure there people were in the right places to slow any progress.  Games at Bali.  The energy bill a joke.  It's not just this administration the Democrats helped pass that bill.  This ethanol game, I think we all know the answer on that one.  I keep asked myself watching this what is the vision?  Wait don't tell me to blindly go where know one has gone before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This administration has done all it can do to stop any progress on climate change.  Following scientists from NASA to make sure they didn&#8217;t say anything wrong.  Changing reports.  Making sure there people were in the right places to slow any progress.  Games at Bali.  The energy bill a joke.  It&#8217;s not just this administration the Democrats helped pass that bill.  This ethanol game, I think we all know the answer on that one.  I keep asked myself watching this what is the vision?  Wait don&#8217;t tell me to blindly go where know one has gone before.</p>
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		<title>By: rosemarie jackowski</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11476</link>
		<dc:creator>rosemarie jackowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11476</guid>
		<description>E.R. Bills did a good job with this one - very thought provoking. I guess for most in the U$A  it comes down to placing a high value on one's own life, and little value on the lives of others. We don't even count the bodies of those we slaughter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>E.R. Bills did a good job with this one - very thought provoking. I guess for most in the U$A  it comes down to placing a high value on one&#8217;s own life, and little value on the lives of others. We don&#8217;t even count the bodies of those we slaughter.</p>
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		<title>By: HR</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11472</link>
		<dc:creator>HR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11472</guid>
		<description>Good article.  There's no "meaning", only explanations based on observations, and the explanations are used only to expand the wealth of the few, through exploitation of the many.  The only reason I've hung around so long is because I'm too cowardly to end it all.  That, and a decades-old desire to see the looks on the faces of the superstitious when it all comes crashing down and no magic being flies down to save them ... for me, that would make it all worthwhile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article.  There&#8217;s no &#8220;meaning&#8221;, only explanations based on observations, and the explanations are used only to expand the wealth of the few, through exploitation of the many.  The only reason I&#8217;ve hung around so long is because I&#8217;m too cowardly to end it all.  That, and a decades-old desire to see the looks on the faces of the superstitious when it all comes crashing down and no magic being flies down to save them &#8230; for me, that would make it all worthwhile.</p>
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		<title>By: Mulga Mumblebrain</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11470</link>
		<dc:creator>Mulga Mumblebrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 22:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11470</guid>
		<description>I think Ron Horn has it precisely. Our destructiveness is the expression of the psychology and class consciousness of a tiny, insatiably greedy, ruling elite. Over the millenia they have consolidated their power, obliterating any individual or society that got in the way, or viewed the world as other than useless substance only fit to be turned into money. Here in Australia, the Right still prosecutes a relentless Crusade against the indigenous people, aimed always at Aboriginal culture, particularly the notion of collective ownership of the land. In fact the Aborigines feel that it is they who belong to the land, and not vice versa, which is anathema to Rightists who see the land, like everything else, as a commodity to be exploited ruthlessly. The Right is hell-bent on coercing Aboriginal assimilation into the mainstream, a form of cultural genocide. Worldwide the forces of Rightwing, capitalist destruction and avarice are led by the US and 'the West'. Their cruelty and destructiveness are unlimited, fuelled by an ignorant, credulous, patriarchal and intolerant religiosity, and the process of world destruction that has inevitably resulted from their endless machinations, is reaching its final crescendo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Ron Horn has it precisely. Our destructiveness is the expression of the psychology and class consciousness of a tiny, insatiably greedy, ruling elite. Over the millenia they have consolidated their power, obliterating any individual or society that got in the way, or viewed the world as other than useless substance only fit to be turned into money. Here in Australia, the Right still prosecutes a relentless Crusade against the indigenous people, aimed always at Aboriginal culture, particularly the notion of collective ownership of the land. In fact the Aborigines feel that it is they who belong to the land, and not vice versa, which is anathema to Rightists who see the land, like everything else, as a commodity to be exploited ruthlessly. The Right is hell-bent on coercing Aboriginal assimilation into the mainstream, a form of cultural genocide. Worldwide the forces of Rightwing, capitalist destruction and avarice are led by the US and &#8216;the West&#8217;. Their cruelty and destructiveness are unlimited, fuelled by an ignorant, credulous, patriarchal and intolerant religiosity, and the process of world destruction that has inevitably resulted from their endless machinations, is reaching its final crescendo.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Horn</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11461</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11461</guid>
		<description>Excellent article, E. R. Bills!

Clearly the capitalist system, and the capitalists it benefits in the short run, is not sustainable given the constraints of our natural habitat.  Mother Nature, who rules over this habitat, has probably already decided to rid the earth of this destructive pest.  Meanwhile the capitalist class will continue on it merry way fouling the air, sea, and earth with its carbon, pesticides, and other toxic wastes in its maniacal quest for ever greater wealth.  It’s a real tragedy because the human race held so much promise among all the other creatures.  With its unique brain it appeared to be smart enough to control many of the constraints of nature to create a special human world that was somewhat insulated from the blind, brute forces of nature. Unfortunately the capitalist members of the human race invented modern advertising, public relations, and psyops to render the brains of the rest of us useless beyond serving the interests of capital.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article, E. R. Bills!</p>
<p>Clearly the capitalist system, and the capitalists it benefits in the short run, is not sustainable given the constraints of our natural habitat.  Mother Nature, who rules over this habitat, has probably already decided to rid the earth of this destructive pest.  Meanwhile the capitalist class will continue on it merry way fouling the air, sea, and earth with its carbon, pesticides, and other toxic wastes in its maniacal quest for ever greater wealth.  It’s a real tragedy because the human race held so much promise among all the other creatures.  With its unique brain it appeared to be smart enough to control many of the constraints of nature to create a special human world that was somewhat insulated from the blind, brute forces of nature. Unfortunately the capitalist members of the human race invented modern advertising, public relations, and psyops to render the brains of the rest of us useless beyond serving the interests of capital.</p>
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		<title>By: sk</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11460</link>
		<dc:creator>sk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11460</guid>
		<description>Albert Camus reminds one of this line from Samuel Johnson: "Be not too hasty to trust, or to admire, the teachers of morality: they discourse like angels, but they live like men." At the height of Algeria's war of independence in 1958 Camus wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
An Algeria formed of federated peoples and linked to France, seems to me, from the point of view of simple justice, incomparably preferable to an Algeria linked to an Islamic Empire which would only mean further misery and suffering for the Arab peoples while depriving the French people of Algeria of their natural homeland.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or as &lt;a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/shavit01162004.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Jim Holstun&lt;/a&gt; put it in his introduction to an interview of a "liberal" scholar in a very similar conflict who also:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
...abandoned humanist ethical universalism, invoking the &lt;i&gt;pied-noir&lt;/i&gt; Camus to do so: "He was considered a left-winger and a person of high morals, but when he referred to the Algerian problem he placed his mother ahead of morality. Preserving my people is more important than universal moral concepts."

When momma makes it into a political analogy, somebody's about to bleed: never get between a &lt;i&gt;colon&lt;/i&gt; and his motherland, particularly if his motherland used to be your motherland. Here, Morris leaves Enlightenment universalism for a &lt;i&gt;volkische&lt;/i&gt; ethics of blood and bone that has haunted world history from Herder to Milosevic. But another French-Algerian, Jules Roy, answered Camus (and Benny Morris): "It is not a matter of choosing one's mother over justice. It is a matter of loving justice as much as one's mother."
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Albert Camus reminds one of this line from Samuel Johnson: &#8220;Be not too hasty to trust, or to admire, the teachers of morality: they discourse like angels, but they live like men.&#8221; At the height of Algeria&#8217;s war of independence in 1958 Camus wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>
An Algeria formed of federated peoples and linked to France, seems to me, from the point of view of simple justice, incomparably preferable to an Algeria linked to an Islamic Empire which would only mean further misery and suffering for the Arab peoples while depriving the French people of Algeria of their natural homeland.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Or as <a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/shavit01162004.html" rel="nofollow">Jim Holstun</a> put it in his introduction to an interview of a &#8220;liberal&#8221; scholar in a very similar conflict who also:</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8230;abandoned humanist ethical universalism, invoking the <i>pied-noir</i> Camus to do so: &#8220;He was considered a left-winger and a person of high morals, but when he referred to the Algerian problem he placed his mother ahead of morality. Preserving my people is more important than universal moral concepts.&#8221;</p>
<p>When momma makes it into a political analogy, somebody&#8217;s about to bleed: never get between a <i>colon</i> and his motherland, particularly if his motherland used to be your motherland. Here, Morris leaves Enlightenment universalism for a <i>volkische</i> ethics of blood and bone that has haunted world history from Herder to Milosevic. But another French-Algerian, Jules Roy, answered Camus (and Benny Morris): &#8220;It is not a matter of choosing one&#8217;s mother over justice. It is a matter of loving justice as much as one&#8217;s mother.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Pierre</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11451</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11451</guid>
		<description>Insanity in individuals is rare, but in nations, societies and epochs it is the general rule. Nietzsche.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Insanity in individuals is rare, but in nations, societies and epochs it is the general rule. Nietzsche.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11432</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11432</guid>
		<description>Gerald good one.  “If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerald good one.  “If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.”</p>
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		<title>By: gerald spezio</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11418</link>
		<dc:creator>gerald spezio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/surely-if-we-believed-life-was-worth-living/#comment-11418</guid>
		<description>For some of us in the sixties, Camus's "Myth of Sysiphus" took on an almost sacred iconic status.

When one answers that life is worth living, the next question is; "What do you want to do with it?"

I unabashedly answer; "To try to get as close as possible to the objective truth of the world."

"And hope that all other humans toil for the same objective goal."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some of us in the sixties, Camus&#8217;s &#8220;Myth of Sysiphus&#8221; took on an almost sacred iconic status.</p>
<p>When one answers that life is worth living, the next question is; &#8220;What do you want to do with it?&#8221;</p>
<p>I unabashedly answer; &#8220;To try to get as close as possible to the objective truth of the world.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;And hope that all other humans toil for the same objective goal.&#8221;</p>
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