Comments on: Pakistan’s Democratic Insurgents: Inside the Awakening Youth Movement http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:36:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: hasan http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-11673 hasan Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:21:37 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-11673 wow, looks like this article got forwarded to a list of Musharraf supporters... a slender minority in pakistan these days who, i suppose are desparate enough to believe amhed qureshi's undisguised propaganda and conspiracy theories. for those who have been following student organizing in pakistan, LUMS is only 1 of dozens of schools participating, and students from other schools are not uniformly from the elite. and although there has been overall economic growth, few of the poor (majority of the population) have seen any benefit from it. but i guess it's convenient to ignore those facts that don't support your attempts to dismiss widespread opposition to musharraf. it's not just students but the Islamist Jamaat and dozens of other political parties and hundreds of civil society groups (secular and religious) that were active in opposing martial law and are now worried about sham elections trying to legitimize an extension of the dictator's rule. wow, looks like this article got forwarded to a list of Musharraf supporters… a slender minority in pakistan these days who, i suppose are desparate enough to believe amhed qureshi’s undisguised propaganda and conspiracy theories. for those who have been following student organizing in pakistan, LUMS is only 1 of dozens of schools participating, and students from other schools are not uniformly from the elite. and although there has been overall economic growth, few of the poor (majority of the population) have seen any benefit from it. but i guess it’s convenient to ignore those facts that don’t support your attempts to dismiss widespread opposition to musharraf. it’s not just students but the Islamist Jamaat and dozens of other political parties and hundreds of civil society groups (secular and religious) that were active in opposing martial law and are now worried about sham elections trying to legitimize an extension of the dictator’s rule.

]]> By: Linah http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-11601 Linah Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:43:47 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-11601 LUMS students belong to posh families, who take words like democracy & dictatorship as something in fashion. The discussions elite like to show-off in public. e.g discusing Harry potter book sales. Though what is interesting to note is, that no-where did the Public come out on streets to protest! 1000 - 1500 protesting in Pakistan, is nothing compared to France where 350,000 protested! Ahmad Qureshi may belong to PTV, but what he writes is in accordance with the regional politics taking place. And, the majority of educated people support similar views! LUMS students belong to posh families, who take words like democracy & dictatorship as something in fashion. The discussions elite like to show-off in public. e.g discusing Harry potter book sales. Though what is interesting to note is, that no-where did the Public come out on streets to protest!

1000 - 1500 protesting in Pakistan, is nothing compared to France where 350,000 protested!

Ahmad Qureshi may belong to PTV, but what he writes is in accordance with the regional politics taking place. And, the majority of educated people support similar views!

]]> By: S.A.Durrani http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-11600 S.A.Durrani Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:36:27 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-11600 In 1999 under a DEMOCRATIC DICTATOR, PAK economy was $75 billion @ 3.5% growth. Foreign reserves below $1 billion. Our Exports $7 billion. KHI stock worth $5 billion at 700 points. Revenue Rs.308 billion. Debt servicing 65% of our GDP and Development program Rs.80 billion. Pakistan was DEFAULTED & BANKRUPT! Now in 2007 under a Military Dictator, our Economy is $160 billion @ 6% growth. Foreign reserves $16 billion. Exports $17.5 billion. KHI stock exchange worth $65 billion at 14,000 points. Revenue above Rs.800 billion. Debt servicing reduced to 26% of GDP. Development programs RS.520 billion. WE ARE STABLE NOW !!! Is Constitution a GOD send book that cannot be changed or altered to suit our grond realities? Or our corrupt politicians GOD send prophets....that we cannot choose other then them? SUPPORT HONEST PEOPLE !! Choose yourself... who is better for Pakistan? In 1999 under a DEMOCRATIC DICTATOR, PAK economy was $75 billion @ 3.5% growth. Foreign reserves below $1 billion. Our Exports $7 billion. KHI stock worth $5 billion at 700 points. Revenue Rs.308 billion. Debt servicing 65% of our GDP and Development program Rs.80 billion. Pakistan was DEFAULTED & BANKRUPT!

Now in 2007 under a Military Dictator, our Economy is $160 billion @ 6% growth. Foreign reserves $16 billion. Exports $17.5 billion. KHI stock exchange worth $65 billion at 14,000 points. Revenue above Rs.800 billion. Debt servicing reduced to 26% of GDP. Development programs RS.520 billion. WE ARE STABLE NOW !!!

Is Constitution a GOD send book that cannot be changed or altered to suit our grond realities? Or our corrupt politicians GOD send prophets….that we cannot choose other then them? SUPPORT HONEST PEOPLE !! Choose yourself… who is better for Pakistan?

]]> By: altaf http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10394 altaf Fri, 07 Dec 2007 22:03:53 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10394 A coallition that is inclusive of the elite (with their current mindset) will fail to address the issues of working classes - because of the elites' power, and their own self-interest. If, however, you have members of the elite who have questioned their own class background, acknowledge their own complicity in the debacle - then yes, those types of people can be very useful because they have the inside working knowledge of how the elites operate. (Imran Khan still needs to be further radicalized, but he is an example of someone (of elite background) who would be very useful in such a coallition if he did a bit more of questioning... he's getting there... not there yet.). It is possible to have a coallition of different ideas, so it is possible to have people of Islamic movements sit down with more labor union oriented working class peoples --- But a coallition of elite class with the working class won't work - because of the kind of issues that have to be addressed. Can there be a coallition of racist whites with people of color to fight racism? Of-course not. Can there be a coalltion of abusive men with abused women to fight violence against women? That would be absurd - but that exactly is the class dynamics of Pakistan. But yes, there can be a coalltion of anti-racist whites with people of color in the lead. The example of elite students who did build coalltions with others in the 60s in the US can serve as an example. What happened after the end of the Vietnam war? A few continued with the struggle. But most white students (men and women) disappeared to the suburbs - with only fond memories of the "60s". The same will happen in Pakistan - unless the issues change from "liberal democracy" to addressing real bread and butter issues. A coallition that is inclusive of the elite (with their current mindset) will fail to address the issues of working classes - because of the elites’ power, and their own self-interest. If, however, you have members of the elite who have questioned their own class background, acknowledge their own complicity in the debacle - then yes, those types of people can be very useful because they have the inside working knowledge of how the elites operate. (Imran Khan still needs to be further radicalized, but he is an example of someone (of elite background) who would be very useful in such a coallition if he did a bit more of questioning… he’s getting there… not there yet.).

It is possible to have a coallition of different ideas, so it is possible to have people of Islamic movements sit down with more labor union oriented working class peoples — But a coallition of elite class with the working class won’t work - because of the kind of issues that have to be addressed.

Can there be a coallition of racist whites with people of color to fight racism? Of-course not. Can there be a coalltion of abusive men with abused women to fight violence against women? That would be absurd - but that exactly is the class dynamics of Pakistan.

But yes, there can be a coalltion of anti-racist whites with people of color in the lead.

The example of elite students who did build coalltions with others in the 60s in the US can serve as an example. What happened after the end of the Vietnam war? A few continued with the struggle. But most white students (men and women) disappeared to the suburbs - with only fond memories of the “60s”. The same will happen in Pakistan - unless the issues change from “liberal democracy” to addressing real bread and butter issues.

]]> By: amber http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10390 amber Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:31:06 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10390 Altaf, I think you're right that any movement which endeavors to be truely transformative must not be lead soley or even primarily by the elite. Like you said, the elite profits from the current status quo in which a tiny minority controls a massive percentage of the nation's wealth. I think it is hopeful that the current student mobilizations include students from approximately 2 dozen universities in Lahore representing those from different class backgrounds, not to mention many others institutions in Islamabad, Karachi and beyond. While the current efforts are focused on the PCO and restoration of an independent judiciary, at one meeting I attended some were brainstorming a platform of issues to address after the immediate crisis passes, for example: advocating for education reforms and funding that would enable all segments of society, especially the poor, to receive a decent education. The question that remains is whether these youth can form an effective, enduring and inclusive coalition or movement which includes people and issues of the working and lower classes who, of course, represent a majority of Pakistan's population. Altaf,

I think you’re right that any movement which endeavors to be truely transformative must not be lead soley or even primarily by the elite. Like you said, the elite profits from the current status quo in which a tiny minority controls a massive percentage of the nation’s wealth. I think it is hopeful that the current student mobilizations include students from approximately 2 dozen universities in Lahore representing those from different class backgrounds, not to mention many others institutions in Islamabad, Karachi and beyond. While the current efforts are focused on the PCO and restoration of an independent judiciary, at one meeting I attended some were brainstorming a platform of issues to address after the immediate crisis passes, for example: advocating for education reforms and funding that would enable all segments of society, especially the poor, to receive a decent education.

The question that remains is whether these youth can form an effective, enduring and inclusive coalition or movement which includes people and issues of the working and lower classes who, of course, represent a majority of Pakistan’s population.

]]> By: altaf http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10369 altaf Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:45:15 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10369 Pakistan does not need some liberal democracy that LUMS students are pushing for... it needs a challenge to the way the state is structured, that has 82% of the population living under $2 a day --- Why have LUMS students not addressed these issues? Because they and their families are part of the problem --- read more on movements and elite higher education with respect to Pakistan, <a href="http://ihsan-net.blogspot.com/2007/12/movements-and-elite-higher-education.html" rel="nofollow"> on this website </a> I agree that Ahmed Qureshi guy sounds more like a Busharraf plant than anything else... Pakistan does not need some liberal democracy that LUMS students are pushing for… it needs a challenge to the way the state is structured, that has 82% of the population living under $2 a day —

Why have LUMS students not addressed these issues? Because they and their families are part of the problem — read more on movements and elite higher education with respect to Pakistan, on this website

I agree that Ahmed Qureshi guy sounds more like a Busharraf plant than anything else…

]]> By: devin http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10299 devin Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:41:41 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10299 Hmmmmm... instead of jumping to conclusions, why don't we take a look at the background of the writer of the Asia Times Article, starting with his bio (from the last page of the Asia Times): "Ahmed Quraishi is an investigative reporter, currently hosting a weekly political talk show titled Worldview From Islamabad, which he created for state-run PTV News, Pakistan's largest television network. See http://www.ahmedquraishi.com " The key part of this is <b>state-run PTV News</b> - PTV is a government mouthpiece and the only station that was not shut down during the emergency. Unlike, say, BBC, which is government-funded but (relatively) objective, PTV is completely one-sided. This fact is well-known by Pakistanis and even acknowledged in <a href="http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=81628" rel="nofollow">this interview</a> with former PTV-chair Aslam Azhar who stated that PTV journalists and producers are "more inhibited in exercising their journalistic judgements" due to the fact that the government has the power to hire and fire. A quick look at his <a href="http://www.ahmedquairshi.com" rel="nofollow">website</a> will show that Ahmed so-called articles are about as trustworthy as the USA's pre-war "intelligence" on WMD in Iraq. Hmmmmm… instead of jumping to conclusions, why don’t we take a look at the background of the writer of the Asia Times Article, starting with his bio (from the last page of the Asia Times):

“Ahmed Quraishi is an investigative reporter, currently hosting a weekly political talk show titled Worldview From Islamabad, which he created for state-run PTV News, Pakistan’s largest television network. See http://www.ahmedquraishi.com ”

The key part of this is state-run PTV News - PTV is a government mouthpiece and the only station that was not shut down during the emergency. Unlike, say, BBC, which is government-funded but (relatively) objective, PTV is completely one-sided. This fact is well-known by Pakistanis and even acknowledged in this interview with former PTV-chair Aslam Azhar who stated that PTV journalists and producers are “more inhibited in exercising their journalistic judgements” due to the fact that the government has the power to hire and fire.

A quick look at his website will show that Ahmed so-called articles are about as trustworthy as the USA’s pre-war “intelligence” on WMD in Iraq.

]]> By: Ron Horn http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10297 Ron Horn Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:17:14 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10297 Great observation, joed! The Asia Times article looks much more discerning. It's possible that Amber is deceived by appearances. But time will tell. Great observation, joed! The Asia Times article looks much more discerning. It’s possible that Amber is deceived by appearances. But time will tell.

]]> By: joed http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10263 joed Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:39:55 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/pakistans-democratic-insurgents-inside-the-awakening-youth-movement/#comment-10263 Who the hell knows what to believe!? the more I agree with an article the more skeptical I am of that atrticle! Is this article written by the CIA or DoD? Following is a link to an article that says something very different about the motives of "students" and others in Pakistan. I sure would like to get ahold of bush/cheney and their gang! http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IL06Df03.html Who the hell knows what to believe!? the more I agree with an article the more skeptical I am of that atrticle! Is this article written by the CIA or DoD? Following is a link to an article that says something very different about the motives of “students” and others in Pakistan.
I sure would like to get ahold of bush/cheney and their gang!
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IL06Df03.html

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