Comments on: Iran War: American Military Versus Israel Firsters

By: wingless

wingless — Thu, 29 May 2008 18:42:49 +0000

Mumblebrain said:
” did not sit well, however, with the appearance in various Israeli journals, and elsewhere, of stories of Israeli officials having briefed US officials, particularly at the Pentagon, for quite sometime beforehand, concerning their plans to attack Lebanon and destroy Hezbollah. ”

My reply:
I LOVE IT! And they were going to invade Lebanon for what? Were they short on blood to make Matzah? Or do you have some more enlightenment on the Jewish conspiracy to take over the world???

WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS GARBAGE? Several Israeli journals said this? That’s interesting as I regularly read “Palestinian” Arab, Jordanian, Syrian, Lebanese and even Hezbollah’s (Al-Manar) news, as well as Israeli news… What you are stating is utter and total rubbish.

SHE SAID:
“God gave Israel to the Jews, so there! ”

REPLY:
Zionism a secular movement. The early Zionists who built the kibbutz were ardent inclusionary Marxists.

As for religion, it plays no part in ZIonism.

And just so I cover this (for information sake). As for the religious angle:
Both the Koran and Old Testament make the exact same claim about the Jews and the Promised Land of Israel:

From the Koran:
[5:20] Recall that Moses said to his people (the Jews, the Tribes of Israel), “O my people, remember GOD’s blessings upon you: He appointed prophets from among you, made you kings, and granted you what He never granted any other people.
[5:21] “O my people, enter the holy land (Israel) that GOD has decreed for you, and do not rebel, lest you become losers.”

See my blog for a covering of this and other verses.

By: Robert

Robert — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:53:13 +0000

There are very many reasonable officers within the Armed Forces of the U.S. and those that in the past gave of warning on the Jewish meddling of american policies: Adm. Crommelin, Gen George Brown,
and Adm. Moorer.- Today, the fact the Pentagon waged a war, massacrated a million people and looted their only asset under a false cause should have given second thoughts on the right to keep on fighting under the banner of the wrong, which is not the American flag,
to many in the services.-

By: Robert

Robert — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:33:26 +0000

The “promised globe” is better than the “promised land”, so global control is the final goal in the aim of the knesset.- So if any hopes are nestled by the Iranians they just have look at the face of Condolezza to see how “dark” the prospect can be of having a reasonable deal on their
nuclear program.- Right after the Camp David agreements the US planned a total support of Israel, even Diego Garcia Base was part of the
plan, and the target was and is to keep and secure the East Bank and Jerusalem within jewish sovereignity, to the extent of eliminating any opposition or arab nation.
Saddam Scuds hitting Tel-Aviv only needed a better warhead to change
the plot. So Irak was sacrificed just in case it could have WMD.
Therefore, as not to have it again, Iran is to be nuked as soon as possible as it can not combine a missile and a warhead able to change the negotiation table to more even terms.

By: Robert

Robert — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:58:10 +0000

A bipartisan president is the same of a dictatorship, the only difference is that is elected among a couple “koshered” beforehand. True democracy is a long way behind in american history, belonging to the early 13 colony times, now recolonized, hardly things may turn to the right path, unless a new venue in politics can give people a direct assembly right instead of being run by a “privatized” administratition.-
As money unconstitutionally is being issued and lent to US GVMT by
the Jewish FED. RES. Military will be replaced by private Blackwaters
in the near future. US Military take notice.

By: Robert

Robert — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:34:11 +0000

To those that still doubt about the seriousness of Mr. Petras article or that minimize the jewish running of American affairs, they must take into account that JFK made clear to Ben Gurion that the US would not
tolerate Israel having nuclear devices, as he knew that Israel was making his experimental nuclear explosions in CHINA. SO TO SPEAK,
CLEAR is that China had and has a very well done arrangement with
Israel that today -through the WTO- is leaving without jobs millions
of americans, JFK is dead and Israel has nuclear warheads.

By: Robert

Robert — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:19:56 +0000

Very few folks do realize that, the more power the AIPAC lobby obtains
the worst becomes his everyday struggle for living. Less social benefits
as welfare money goes to keep going the Irak-Afghan war, less jobs as imported stuff from China has bankrupt a wide industrial spectrum. Less
gas from the same money as a direct consequence of the unfair one-sided US support of the Israel design on the Palestinian issue. More to
pay for health care and medicine to jewish controlled labs, Hospitals and insurance providers, more interest to pay to jewish controlled banks and less freedom in Internet from a Jewish patronized control.

By: Robert

Robert — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:02:51 +0000

Either Dems. or Reps. candidates are placidly swimming to November
in an ocean of jewish money and supervision, as soon as any one is going off the “tracks”, slightly showing some disapproval of zionistic
policies, will no longer have access to TV, will no longer have interviews
and from then subject to a brivery or sex scandal.- You can recall that the Lewinsky show was staged because at the same time it was discovered that Israel had a spy in the White House.-

By: Robert

Robert — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:45:00 +0000

Very enlightening Mr. Petras article.- But, what can be decided to correct the course with a constituency of “bad-wisered” macerated dolts under the permanent ABC, CBS, ABC, Warner and Disney cathode-ray diffusion? (All american information is jewish controlled).-
How many voters remember that Richard Nixon wanted to make an American National Party,to establish a control on TV media and hand
over a nuclear reactor to the arabs? No wonder what costed him the presidency!

By: Mike McNiven

Mike McNiven — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 00:32:31 +0000

Thank you Professor Petras!

The anti-imperialist Iranians who overthrew the puppet shah have positions from which we can learn a lot more:

http://www.counterpunch.org/fiyouzat12012007.html

http://www.hopoi.org/index.html

By: Mulga Mumblebrain

Mulga Mumblebrain — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:08:03 +0000

Neal speaks of the possibility of Hezbollah dragging Lebanon into another dispute with Israel, by which I infer he is stating it was Hezbollah that instigated the 2006 fracas. If we needed further proof that Neal was not left, neglected, behind the door, when the chutzpah was being handed out, here it is. At the time of the outbreak of conflict it was widely reported that the capture of Israeli troops was made after an Israeli incursion into Lebanon. This story soon disappeared to be replaced by the usual lurid tales of Hezbollah perfidy. This did not sit well, however, with the appearance in various Israeli journals, and elsewhere, of stories of Israeli officials having briefed US officials, particularly at the Pentagon, for quite sometime beforehand, concerning their plans to attack Lebanon and destroy Hezbollah. Indeed Israeli officials were quoted as saying this was the best prepared war Israel had ever launched. Within days, as Israel devastated Lebanon from the air, with that elan and bravado one has come to expect from all the death-dealers of Western Civilization as they bomb with impunity the scuttling, fleeing, untermenschen beneath, clearly aiming to provoke sectarian strife within Lebanon as has been their wont for decades, the Israeli Ambassador to the UN was able to boast, before a braying pro-Israel mob, of just that ‘disproportionality’ that the rest of the world, the civilised world, condemned. Unfortunately, despite yeoman service in destroying homes, schools, mosques, petrol stations, fleeing civilians and ambulances, when the stout Israelis met Hezbollah, mano a mano, so to speak, the despicable rag-heads refused to be cowed. Years of training in the manly arts of shooting children in the head, forcing old men to urinate on one another at checkpoints and terrorising old ladies, had left the quaintly misnamed Israel Defence Force unprepared to face armed, valiant opposition. So, in further tribute to that Western Civilization that is the envy of all the swarthy races, the Israelis scattered South Lebanon with millions of cluster bomblets, in yet another unparalleled display of their legendary ‘moral purity’. Everyone who can read knows the history, but the Israel-Firsters are nothing if not enthusiastic in their rewriting of history. As ever, Israel is always the innocent victim, at least when propagandising the ignorant dolts of Middle America who know nothing but that God gave Israel to the Jews, so there! I’m sorry Neal, but your resort to such flagrant meddling with the facts puts all your other assertions even further into the territory of wishful thinking, or hasbara if you want to get technical.

By: Harmoon

Harmoon — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 07:05:34 +0000

“Benjamin Netanyahu, whom the U.S. Congress customarily treats with the kind of deference it might reserve for a Lincoln returned from the dead, warned senators and congressmen that Saddam was developing nukes that could be delivered in suitcases and satchels, and Shimon Peres told Americans that Saddam was as dangerous as bin Laden. The lobbying was so blatant that some political consultants warned Israel to cool it, lest Americans come to believe that the war in Iraq was waged “to protect Israel rather than to protect America.”
http://amconmag.com/2007/2007_12_03/cover.html

By: Ron Horn

Ron Horn — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 05:59:01 +0000

Mr. Neal

You disingenuously try to separate the U.S. ruling class from that of Israel’s in order to confuse the issue. You should re-read Petras’ article. With many Israel Firsters inside the U.S. establishment, Israel’s ruling class clearly exercises nearly overwhelming control over both the Executive branch and the Congress and they know it. Many of them have duel citizenship. Hence they use U.S.’s wealth, arms, and military to further its aims to completely dominate the Middle East. They obviously can’t do this by themselves. The Israelis with the most modern weapons and air force ( thanks to U.S. taxpayers) in the world can’t even hold their own against a poorly armed group like Hezbollah . They excel only at bulldozing Palestinian homes and shooting stone throwing Palestinian kids. The non-Israel Firsters among the U.S. ruling class are easily seduced by bribes and visions of world domination to go along with this mad project.

I think there are grounds to believe that Israelis and the Israel Firsters in the U.S. are a bunch of morons because they seem to think that they can get away with this indefinitely. The American people are waking up and when they finally get up off their asses, the Israel Firsters may start to reconsider their commitment to Israel.

By: Shabnam

Shabnam — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:27:05 +0000

We appreciate Mr. Petras’ article on Iran to inform Americans and the world to oppose any strike, economic or military, on Iran. To portrait Iranian president as Hitler is not new to the Zionist -imperialist forces. They used the same lies and deception for the Egyptian president, Gamal Abdel Nasser a secular and nationalist leader in 1956, and they called him Hitler to demonize a leader because he wanted to control Suez canal, in order to carry out a vicious plan for their expansionist policy when British and French colluded with Israelis who launched an attack on the canal zone to give the Anglo-French force a pretext to go in.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/01/europe/EU_GEN_Britain_Suez.php#end_main
They also used insulting and threatening language and misinformation campaign which was carried out by the Western media to remove Mossadeq, a nationalist, who was democratically elected as prime minister of Iran, by a CIA-backed coup when he nationalized Iran’s oil.
The 1979 overthrow of the Shah created inconvenience for Israel and America. The Shah supplied all Israel’s oil needs via a pipeline from Eilat. After the revolution, Iranian government put an end to this program and Israel was forced to buy more expensive oil. In the 1980’s, Israel’s National Infrastructure Minister Joseph Paritzky was considering the possibility of reopening an oil pipeline from Mosul to port of Haifa in northern Israel. Syria, agreed to a request from Iran to block the flow of Iraqi oil to the Mediterranean and therefore the plan was postponed. The Iraq war has improved Israel chance greatly to have access to Iraqi oil.
As Mr. Petras has pointed out the Zionist force and its associates have presented Iran as a threat to world peace through disinformation, accusation without substance to pursue its Middle East policy based on Zionist lobby’s script which has received opposition from American people and even some faction of elites in the military and beyond.
Those who are pro Israel claim that without Israel’s military prowess, the US exploitation of resources ultimately is threatened, or some claim Israel strength is an asset for the United States and without that asset the situation gets worse compare to the present situation. This explanation suggests continuation with no critics for support of Israel which is not beneficial to American people. These people, contrary to John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, want us to believe Israel is an asset not liability.
If the empire is so depended on Israeli prowess in the Middle East then why the empire does not want to use its status to create more assets like Israel not to be black mailed by the lone “asset”? Why the empire does not want to work with its natural ally, Iran, to increase competition not to allow one state to dominant the Middle East Policy through its Zionist Power Configuration? Why the empire does create so many obstacles for its natural ally over a century, Iran, to help the Zionist’s plan in the Middle East by waging war against countries with over 3000 years of civilization and try to disintegrate these countries through misinformation and lies and deception to create satellite states for an illegitimate state?
Americans and Iranian people do not want war, they have said it repeatedly. Those who Push for another Zionist war, like Norman podhoretz and Joe Lieberman, are interested in Israel’s expansionist plan and not American people interest. As the following video shows, American people are opposing to any aggression against Iran.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MBzLTjVMhY

With the New information from the National Intelligence Estimate on Iran, where they have reached to the same conclusion which Iran has said repeatedly that Iran has no Nuclear Weapon Program and, therefore, Bush must back off and implement a policy that benefits American people interest and not the Zionist aggressive policy towards Iran, Palestine, Lebanon, Sudan, and other countries in the region.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071203/ap_on_go_ot/iran_nuclear

The Zionists not only have wiped Palestine off the map but also have wiped Iran off the INTERNATIONAL DIALING CODES. Please do not buy calendars which put Iran OFF THE MAP.
Mr. Petras is not a bigot, rather a scholar who tries to present facts against lies and deception and remove the veil of ignorance which has fed the interest of Zionism for the past 60 years.

By: Espresso

Espresso — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:12:02 +0000

You just talked around my point. I’m talking about Hamas/Hezbollah and their sponsor, Iran. Israel has one of the most powerful militaries in the world. Their only threatening nemises at the turn of the century were Iraq and Iran. If they can ensure that Iran is rendered defenseless before Bush’s term ends they’d be the ONLY dominant power in the REGION.

Israel could dictate its terms to the Palestinians, Hezbolloah would be weakened, and Syria would even be weakened. You haven’t disproven this theory, just talked around it “i.e. not having the population to police the Gulf with troops”. That point is irrelevant to what Israel is trying to accomplish (land acquisition, and uncontested dominance in the region)

You might find this link interesting. It show Kyl / Lieberman / and Clinton as three of the top 5 recipients of Israel Lobby money. Ever hear of “Kyl Lieberman” and wonder about Hillary’s support of it:

Top Recipients of Israel Lobby:

1. Lieberman, Joe (I-CT) Senate $1,204,890

2. Cardin, Ben (D-MD) Senate $441,373

3. Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) Senate $328,873

4. Nelson, Bill (D-FL) Senate $327,941

5. Kyl, Jon (R-AZ) Senate $310,596

http://opensecrets.org/industries/recips.asp?Ind=Q05&cycle=2006

By: Neal

Neal — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:55:28 +0000

Espresso,

Israel would not be a major power in the Gulf even if Iran were wiped off the map. The Gulf is too far from Israel and Israel lacks the population - not to mention navy - to project and sustain military power in the Gulf. So, that idea makes no sense.

The US, however, would have that exact benefit if Iran’s influence were reduced - assuming, of course, that such could be sustained, which is very doubtful. But, your new theory, once again, shows clearly that Mr. Petras is entirely wrong, if we assume that your theory is correct. Which is to say, the US does its own bidding for its own benefit, as it is the US which has more to gain.

Moreover, there are numerous powerful countries nearby that would have more influence than Israel in the Gulf, were Iran to cease being powerful. Think Pakistan. Think Turkey. Think India. Think Saudi Arabia.

And, Hezbollah has numerous funding sources, not just Iran. And, in due course, Hezbollah would make up any losses suffered. So, yours is not really a plausible theory to explain Israel’s concerns about Iran.

It is, however, better than that of Mr. Petras.

By: Espresso

Espresso — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:55:27 +0000

It’s more in line with stopping the flow of money to Israel’s adversaries. Iran’s danger to Israel is due to its proxy nature. They are indirectly keeping those who oppose Israel armed and funded (Hamas, Hezbollah).

With Iraq and perhaps Iran devastated by bombing and in ruins, Israel would be the ONLY power in the region. It could dictate its settlement to the Palestinians as there would be no adversarial force that could fund the groups that could resist the occupation.

By: Neal

Neal — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:51:26 +0000

Espresso,

You propose that Israel wants to go after Iran in order to get at Hezbollah’s missiles. There is a logic to that theory although it is a completely different one than is suggested by Mr. Petras.

In fact, if you are correct, then Mr. Petras is wrong in that he postulates that Israel is essentially making up the threat from Iran. On your theory, that is not so.

It seems to me, your theory also suffers from the problem that Israel would be risking an awful lot in order to affect Hezbollah’s behavior when, in fact, Hezbollah’s behavior is already constrained, at this point, by Lebanese politics which will not tolerate Hezbollah dragging the country into another dispute with Israel. And, there is the further problem that Israel would, if the issue is missiles, not accomplish anything by attacking Iran because missiles can be obtained by Hezbollah from any of a number of sources.

So, Israel would, in order to win a Pyrrhic victory, risk its relationship with the US to have it attack far away Iran, with Hezbollah left OK and with the ability to obtain missiles anyway.

If Israel wants the US to help it deal with Hezbollah, why not propose that the US go after Hezbollah directly? That would be more consistent, following your theory that the concern is Hezbollah.

By: Espresso

Espresso — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:03:49 +0000

>> ‘One has to ask, since the Petras article has no imaginable explanation, if Israelis do not really think that Iran is looking to build a bomb, what does Israel get out of an attack on Iran? Not much. In fact, they stand to lose a lot. Which is to say, the premise of the article is idiotic. ”

- Possibly because Israel just lost an embarrassing war to Hezbollah in Lebanon. Hezbollah’s missle range keeps getting longer and eventually will do more significant damage when Israel decides it wants to frivolously bomb Lebanon’s infrastructure again.

- “Friends of Israel” have strategically positioned hundreds of thousands of American troops in the region (in Iraq), and now would be a good time to use those American forces to ensure Israel complete dominance and supremacy in the region, by annhialating the next biggest nemesis (and financer of Hezbollah), Iran.

Once Iran goes the way of Iraq, Israel can pretty much have its way with the Palestinians, Lebanon, Syria, etc. as the money flow will stop.

By: dan elliott

dan elliott — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 02:24:37 +0000

I think we’re starting to get to this “neal” character: he’s getting more & more shrill, less & less veneer of plausibility. Calling Dr Petras a bigot whose writing belongs in Hitler’s Germany? Seems a lil over the top to me.

Hohum:)

By: Mulga Mumblebrain

Mulga Mumblebrain — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:00:04 +0000

I’m afraid Jaime finally seems deluded. The only babies and sick people dying are those in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and Gaza, where Zionist policy to demonise Moslems and destroy their countries, in order to establish Israeli hegemony, has caused multiple humanitarian catastrophes. Undoubtedly the Zionist plans for regional dominance are meeting greater resistance, not only from the heroic people of Gaza, Southern Lebanon and Iraq, but from most of the other countries of the world, as expressed in the UN General Assembly, and within the USA itself. Hence the increasingly hysterical tone of Zionist wailing, to be expected from Jaime, but which seems even to have infected Neal’s apologias for Israeli crimes, previously dispassionate in their casuistic revisions of history and the facts. For Neal to now be demanding the censorship of Petras’ lucid expositions of the facts, utilising the usual smears of ‘anti-Semitism’ and bigotry(talk about the pot calling the kettle black) shows the growing desperation of the Zionists who have bitten off more than they can chew, possibly through believing their own racist denigrations of Moslems and Arabs. It is crucial that the Ziocon tendency be defanged now, not only to protect the people of Iran, and rescue those of Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine etc, but to derail the next phase of Ziocon power mania-the coming confrontation with China. The portents are plain that the Zionists, having gained control, in perpetuity they seem to believe, over the world’s superpower, are determined to prevent the rise of another world power, particularly one where Jews do not dominate business, the media and politics to the extent they do in the US. The Chinese are, indeed, unfit for world leadership as they are not representatives of that incomparable Judeo-Christian Western Civilisation that has brought the people of the world so many, many blessings. Even more threatening all the faery stories about Moses, Abraham and Jesus are, for them, merely interesting fables of another people. The despicably hypocritical machinations over Darfur, coming from people who ignore the vastly greater suffering in the Congo, and who were responsible for the vastly worse depradations in Iraq, is partly aimed, as ever, at demonising Moslems, but is also being used, with cynical hypocrisy, to target China. We can expect much more of the same, accompanied by the familiar pretensions of moral superiority, in the future.