This is why I’m so opposed to the cults.

duaner, you’re statements are no more reassuring than the Christian Fundamentalist - Christian: Jesus will come back and make everything great! or Secularist: Why care because when I die I won’t have to suffer the toxic pollution? Either attitude is pretty bad and pretty much the same in the end.

Why are people religious, or why do they have faith in a particular religion? I think it’s because they do not want to accept that when they die, it’s forever. Accordingly, if you can reassure them that they won’t really die when they die, or that they will continue on in some form, I think they’ll buy into just about anything else you care to tell them.

I’m not immune to this. When I was younger, I didn’t want to think that when I’m gone that’s it for me, but when I looked around me that was the inescapable conclusion. So, I was pretty sure that when I died, I was going to end up worm food and nothing else. I’m not certain of that - maybe my spirit or soul or chi or something will persist after I perish, but that just feels like wishful thinking to me.

There’s no way to prove that God exists, or that he does not exist. So I ruled religion out of my life. If I’m going to behave myself, I’ll do it because I think it’s the right thing to do, not because I fear the wrath or seek the approval of the Great Beard in the Sky. Doing good for God cheapens the act, as your motivations are in the end self-serving. Mine are too, really (because it makes me feel nice, and I think it makes the world a better place), but at least I won’t pretend otherwise.

That said, Mike, thou art free to practice thy religion as thou seest fit. However, it never seems to be enough for you true believers to be left alone to worship God in your own way. You always have to try to influence other people to believe as you do. It’s inescapable for you, because if you really believe, you really want others to believe as well - it’s for their own good, after all. I see one of the tenets of your faith is to allow others to worship what, when and how they want. So why do you guys keep coming to my house and leaving pamphlets?

You have a brain - it might even be a gift from God. So use it. Learn a little history - especially the history of religion. There’s some pretty good evidence that the religion you follow is but one of many that have been practiced by humanity throughout our long evolution, and is not particularly unique in terms of its basic tenets. Human beings have been telling themselves stories to explain the mysteries of existence for as long as we have had language. Christianity, and the particularly laughable branch of it that is Mormonism, are just recent retellings of very old myths.

Come to think of it, the brain might just be a tool of Satan. That would be just like him. What is more useless or dangerous to a true believer than an inquisitive, rational mind?

Anyway, Mike, I’ll leave you with this - I bet we both pity each other. You’re a good Christian, so you must believe that I’m going to hell, along with my beautiful wife and my cherished, unbaptized children. Whereas I feel sorry for you and yours, for spending your life encumbered by superstition. So good luck with that, and maybe we’ll meet in Hell, should the Catholics prove to have been right about everything after all…

“greater good” not “food”

and it was a dismissive question “not” and inquisitive one.

For John Cuthbert: The reason that the whole detailed doctrine of the church is not expressed in 6 1 hour missionary sessions is because the doctrine of the Mormon church takes many years of study and personal spiritual experience to understand. The Jews, too, wanted to know the full doctrine from Jesus Christ and when he told them, they killed him.

As in all things you must first understand the foundational principles before you can understand the unique details. When a teacher teaches math he doesn’t teach Algebra and assume you understand the concept of basic addition and subtraction.

Just as the Lord teaches so does the LDS church: Line upon line.

Being a Mormon isn’t easy. Not only do you have the pressures of the world, but you have the pressures of knowing what the purpose of life is and then following the path that that knowledge reveals. It is a daily battle.

I wonder why so many people outside the church (former members as well) are so determined to dismiss the Mormon Faith and Doctrine. They pick it apart as if the LDS church is imposing its faith on the vicimts of the world.

I submit that the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints has done far more good than any bad that can be discovered. It’s people are clean and pure for the most part and add to the greater food of any community they live in. There is no fear in explaining the doctrine we believe.

When those who put forth questions such as “Don’t they believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers?” as Huckabee did or even ask the question directly are not interested in finding out what Mormons believe they are interested in dismissing Mormon belief. It is an elimination question and and inquisitive one. If someone was truly interested in the Mormon faith they would ask Mormons what they believe. And when Mormon’s try to explain their beliefs in more than one sentence then they are ridiculed.

I submit to you, tell me your whole core beliefs in one sentence and I will ask you 20 questions that can dispute it. Such questioning is insincere, divisive and is laced with derision.

For the Author of this post I have but one point to make.

You sir have not practiced the Mormon faith, I dare say, since you were a teen ager or maybe never. You say that your transition was in college, but you express your parents lack of belief for a long time which shows a lack of desire to teach you with the spirit what they believe.

Have you ever considered that you left the church because you lacked faith? This is not a science based church it is faith based. I have met and read the writings of several scholars who are LDS and are experts in the fields of geology, History, Archeology and Philosophy and have the strongest LDS beliefs that I have encountered. The difference between you and them? Faith!

You are both smart they just have the faith to believe that which cannot be explained at this time does not mean it will not be explained in this life or the next. What they do believe is that which the church teaches is necessary for eternal salvation is the most sound of any doctrine, teaching, philosophy or thought presented to the human race.

Everything after that is about faith and growth of which you gave neither a chance when it came to the LDS church.

Here you are 40 years later with no connection to the church calling on it as if you were in it for 40 years and had discovered some tome or ism that revealed your horrific gullibility.

You write with intelligence so I take for granted that you are. Intelligence is not enough! It takes a more difficult and challenging part of your being of which you were not willing to exercise and that is faith.

This doesn’t take away from who you are, but it does define who you are.

At least the nightmares went away after I stopped attending church, following high school graduation. The shackles began to seriously fall away after reading Thomas Paine’s, “Age of Reason” as a college freshman. From then on, time took its course, until now, at 58, I despise religion and superstition in all forms. They are ALL cults, all human creations with one major goal: CONTROL of others. “Enter to Worship, Depart to Serve,” is nothing more than a recipe for tyranny.

If people do not take control of, and responsibility for, themselves, the species is doomed, just another evolutionary dead end, and that is where we appear to be headed — particularly when one considers the collection of trash from among us that is the latest putrid bunch vying for the presidency. Maybe next time around, chance and natural selection will result in a “higher” species better equipped to deal with reality, one with no urge to create imaginary beings and imaginary explanations to guide its members or exert control over them.

Incidentally, I had never heard of “Mormon underwear” until recently. Now I know a little more about it. So, what’s the big deal? Finally, I like the Mormon story vastly more than the Christofascist fundamentalist one. It’s much better science fiction.

Fundamentalist Mormon magic directly from God and scripture ( “This is the place …”); and the indigenous Ute People are expropriated from their land.

Fundamentalist Judaic magic directly from God and scripture
(”Our right to the land “); and the indigenous Palestinian People are expropriated from their land.

Fundamentalist Christian magic from God and scripture ( “Jesus, Jerusalem, and Judaism …”), and the expropriation of the Palestinians is justified and condoned.

Debating Mitt Romney’s preposterous Mormonism with Joshua Frank or anybody is NOT focusing on fundamentalist Judaism and Zionism …”

And the murder and mayhem perpetrated in the ME by Zionism’s fanatical and mandatory expansion.

Try to decipher the chaotic diversity of nature without using the explanatory tool of evolution.

Try to decipher the chaotic distortions and outright murder of millions playing out now in the Middle East without understanding and using Zionism’s inescapable and overwhelming influence as an explanatory tool.

But how many times do you hear about Muslim fundamentalism, Muslim fanaticism, and Muslim terrorism?

Most Americans do not even know that they are paying Israel billions to advance fanatical Zionism.

Joshua Frank knows all about fanatical Zionism.

I’m sure they would be happy to comply. Last I saw there was a sign over their door that said “Secularists Need Not Apply”

“Huckabee, unlike Carter, does not accept evolution or the scientific account of the age of the earth, and he believes the Bible, from Genesis through Revelation, to be the inerrant word of God.”

Everytime I have heard Huckabee speak on this topic, his clear public statement has been that he doesn’t know when or how God created the earth only that He did. This seems to be the same integration of faith and reason that our founding fathers saw as important. He has been unfairly painted as “anti-science” unless science now claims the capacity to test for God’s existence.

That being said, “the religious test” is government side, not voter side. As a voter, I will choose the man or woman who I best believes will serve the interest of our nation. I may choose to vote for the man whose faith in practice best lines up with my own. The constitution doesn’t forbid this type of voting and we should all quit pretending that it somehow unethical for someone to vote in line with their faith. Faith is philosophy and we should all strive for integrity in thought and practice.

However, God cares about more than just social issues and a healthy person of faith should as well. There are 80 million self-identified evangelicals in America and they should all vote their conscience, as should every American. As you have stated, how a man applies his faith (whatever that faith/philosophy of life may be) and demonstrates his character should be the litmus test.