Mort/Mike/Whoever can deny it all he wants and put forth all types of fancy or misleading arguments, but the image will not magically convert itself into an image that appears like USS Liberty. The image does not appear like USS Liberty, yet the IDF claims it shows USS Liberty.

Folks can read my essays, view my analysis images, and decide for themselves if the IDF History Report ship does or does not appear like USS Liberty — it’s as simple as that.

It’s actually Ken’s responsibility to prove his case, not the other way around. Ken’s method is simply the continuation of the *nothing is real except our stories and what we claim* crowd.

Naturally Ken doesn’t wish to understand the significance of which group has actually been shown to doctor a photo (while making the claim regarding how EASY it would be to see the hip’s hoisted flag) as well as make other outlandish claims regarding gun camera film.

And truly what is the bottom line: since Israel has never claimed not to have attacked the Liberty, there’s no issue surrounding the quality of any gun camera film — no matter how many times copied images have been copied/xeroxed, scanned, re-scanned, etc, etc, over the past 25+ years prior to Ken publishing his worthless conclusion.

And finally, as if it’s not plain enough by now in the year of our Lord 2007 — all this useless noise over the Internet isn’t having any impact beyond the Net that Ken and others had most likely hoped for. That’s not all that surprising.

PS: One can wonder if the IDF had been made aware of what nonsense Ken has been up to and as such, is not to be taken seriously. After all, it’s all suppose to be some grand conspiracy of some kind or other, is it not. :)

After several follow-up inquires, the last word I heard was to the effect: We’re checking into it, and will let you know what we find. That was several years ago, and my last follow-up inquiry was never answered.

Meanwhile, while we’re waiting, perhaps you can persuade Mr. Cristol to make available high-resolution digital copies of several frames of gun camera footage from the lead aircraft — showing the best images possible that match the ones appearing in his book, and the ones in the IDF History Report. For good measure, perhaps include a few frames from the other aircraft’s gun cameras as well.

Surely, with his many IDF contacts, Mr. Cristol should be able to obtain better copies of gun camera images than the ones currently available. In fact, one would think he would be eager to do this to debunk claims about the current images being fake. On the other hand, perhaps he’s too busy hunting for apparently missing Congressional reports to debunk claims that they never was a Congressional investigation.

Notice that “Mort” did not deny the images appearing in both the IDF History Report and the Thames Ltd. film do not appear like USS Liberty. Rather, he side-stepped the issue by launching into nit-picking about the printed images not being the actual film or negative. Next, Mort directs you to a web site page, by an anoymous author (somebody ashamed of his name?), that discusses an obvious fake flag placed in an image of USS Liberty — as if this will somehow prove or show the ship shown in the IDF History report really appears like USS Liberty.

The self-evident truth of the matter is that the image appearing in the IDF History Report and the Thames Ltd. film does not appear like USS Liberty — not even close. See for yourself: http://usslibertyinquiry.googlepages.com/essay12

To make things worst, the purported gun camera image in the IDF History Report does not appear anything like the purported gun camera image in A. J. Cristol’s book — and they both supposedly came from the same gun camera film footage taken by the lead attack aircraft. (Hmm, maybe this explains why the IDF could not ID the ship. It employed some type of shape-shifter technology that allowed the ship to appear different at different times. :-)

Here’s the bottom line: the use of fake gun camera images by the IDF is an attempt to make it appear that the ship was difficult to identify. This false impression is misleading and deceptive. And as such, the fake photos betray the IDF’s claim of innocence: an innocent party has not need to produce and present fraudulent evidence to support one’s innocence.

It’s down right silly to make the claim that he does based on his description of his actual sources used.

Since Ken can not set a valid foundation in the first place, his conclusion is meaningless, and frankly that’s all that is needed to debunk his claim.

However, when it comes to “fake” photos, simply look at what was attempted by the folks Ken hangs around with:

http://members.aol.com/libertyincident/RGxxfakephoto.html

As always, I welcome constructive feedback or evidence that challenges my findings.

Perhaps you can start by attempting to debunk my finding that the IDF History Report’s purported gun camera photos of USS Liberty are fake (i.e., they aren’t photos of USS Liberty), or offer an explanation for the IDF’s need to use fake photos.

Another tactic is to nit-pick to death any comment made anybody who does not support the “tragic accident” claim. While I believe it’s important to correctly state facts, it doesn’t make much difference, for example, whether there were a few or no clouds in the sky when the attack occurred. But a nit-picker will take this type of statement and turn it into a discussion about meteorology; i.e., change the subject.

The sheer fact that somebody changes the subject is a strong indication that he/she has little to nothing to offer in support of his/her argument.

Jaime, you may be interested in the site’s article entitled “Symbols of the State, its Holidays, and Official Languages.” It directly addresses the issue of Israel’s Jewish character and its impact on its non-Jewish citizens.

“The attack was the easy part; the aftermath in not being able to get our government to address this cover up has been the bastard. I’ve had forty years thinking about this crap and all the presidents and Congressmen and Senators since LBJ are guilty for not addressing this issue that has been set before them. The few congressional representatives who have tried to address this have been silenced by the Israel Lobby; AIPAC and the JDL.”

It is apparent that particular readers of DV, also desire to NOT address this and the topic of the article:

“After more than two hours of unremitting assault, the Israelis finally halted their attack. One of the torpedo boats approached the Liberty. This same torpedo boat crew had been circling the ship, machine-gunning anyone who stuck his head above decks, as well as the lifeboats the crew had put over the side. A torpedo boat officer asked in English over a bullhorn: ‘Do you need any help?’ The wounded commander of the Liberty, Captain William McGonagle, instructed the quartermaster to respond emphatically: “Fuck you.”

Now, I chose to second that sentiment because if ones friend/ally would stab them in the back with the ultimate Judas kiss; a violent assault on an unarmed spy ship and then offer ‘help’ that two word epithet sums it up best.

The issue remains that we have a Congress indebted to the pro-Israel lobby and they are not committed to justice for the LIBERTY Vets, nor do they want the truth coming out.

As I have said, i have only just begun this series seeking justice for the LIBERTY: and all the survivors are asking is for an open investigation, declassification of all records of that day in infamy when the media went MIA and our government went limp.

e

Nowhere in Gary’s comment did he say anything about removing anybody from Israel. Rather, he suggested that the State of Israel be converted to a truly pluralistic democracy — one in which all people, regardless of their religious or cultural background, enjoy equal rights.

By the way, an Irishman is anybody who hales from Ireland. Being Irish does not denote a religious belief. You can even be Jewish and still be an Irishman; albeit, the Jewish population of Ireland is very small.

I find it interesting that you’re distressed and concerned about somebody possibly suggesting that Jews should leave their lands in Israel. Now you’re beginning to sense how the Arabs felt when the Eastern European Jews forced them off their lands, denied them property rights, and squeezed them out of the labor market. And like you predicted with you’re Irish example, the Arabs gave the Eastern European Jewish colonists a “knuckle sandwich” in return.

Imagine going to Ireland and saying

“OK, let’s dismantle Ireland now! You Irish people can go find another place to live.”

One or both of these things will happen.

1) Men in white suits take you to a mental hospital.

2) You get a knuckle sandwich.

So, tell me Ken..how do you propose that would be accomplished?

Would all Jews be physically compelled to vacate (or else?), or do you think they would just leave if you asked them nicely?

The attack was deliberate. The IDF admits it was deliberate. A deliberate attack is not an accidental attack. The pilots claim they could not identify the ship; i.e., they deliberately attacked an unidentified ship. The MTB captains claim they misidentified the ship. The MTBs deliberately attacked the “misidentified” ship. In short, the ship was deliberately attack. A deliberate attack is not an accidental attack.

Of course, you are absolutely correct that Israel is not a “Jews only” state — a fact that worries some of its Jewish citizens due to the population growth rate of non-Jews (about 3%) v/s that of Jews (about 1.5%), according to 2006 statistics. But considering that Jews, of various types, are about 75% of the population, it will be a while before they find themselves in the minority.

Israel is not a “Jews only” state. There are 3 official languages, one of which is Arabic.

So what do you think “dismantled” means?

There are 7 million people there. You gonna “dismantle” them? How?

It’s about maximum violence. There’s no other interpretation.

And the USS Liberty incident was a tragic accident. But there are still some wingnuts around who think it was some kind of pre-arranged plot or something. …my views on the subject have already been adequately expressed in this and the other related thread.
—————-
Gary Lapon said on November 22nd, 2007 at 3:50 pm #

Yes, many critics of Israel are anti-Semitic, to varying degrees. Still, this doesn’t discount the fact that Israel is an apartheid state founded on ethnic cleansing and perpetuated by state-sponsored terrorism and racism. It must be criticized effectively, and ultimately dismantled as a Jews-only state in favor of a state with equal rights for all.
———-