Lloyd

Secondly, Dave Z is a decent human being who has, for reasons only he can answer, chosen to champion the causes of and give a voice to those who have been marginalized and treated as less than human in American society (don’t forget that when the constitution was written, black people were considered three fifths human and many in the United States still, albeit inwardly or in like-minded company, view us that way). He speaks from the heart and with honesty concerning the black athlete about issues or with points of view that gather no mainstream media attention. I thank God that men like him exist and pray that he get a wider and, hopefully, more open minded audience.

You also said: “Unlike … Conseco… Mcgwire… Caminiti he (Bonds) denied it over and over.” Well I do not know about Caminiti, and Jose Conseco is an open book, but I have never heard about Mark Mcgwire admitting to any steroid use although Mcgwire is outed by Conseco as having using steroids for most of his baseball career going back to the Oakland A’s. He was raised to almost godlike status when he hit 70 homers even though it openly acknowledged that he was regularly using a substance (andro) banned in most major sports other than baseball. But are the federal prosecutor going after him? Did they bring him before a grand jury and ask him questions to put him in position to perjure himself? Did the major media cast suspicion on Mcgwire? No and no and no are the answers to these questions and I beg to submit that had not Bonds broken Mcqwire’s record that none of this (federal prosecution and media assault) would even be happening right now and steroids would still be baseball’s “dirty little secret.” And to sum it up, what is the obvious difference between Mcgwire and Bonds? One is black and one is white. Yep, it’s still all black and white in these United States. Were it not, the voice of Dave Z would not be so needed.

Finally you said: “And why did Mukasey get dragged into this.” In this case I cannot talk about Mukasey without talking about his boss George W. Bush. Oh yeah, him, the man who lied about WMD’s (along with the formerly respected Colin Powell) to get our nation into war in Iraq, who lied about “regime change” (something we could use here) to keep us in Iraq once there, and who now continues to stay the course in this illegal, unconstitutional, and detrimental (to most Americans) war for profit. He has lied and lied and continues to lie and American soldiers are dying but will the feds prosecute him? Let’s see: Barry Bonds may or may not have used steroids to gain an advantage over a few pitchers in a GAME, mind you, where no one dies but we want to spend millions to send him to jail. George W. Bush, on the other hand, has had a hand in the death of close to 4,000 Americans and countless Iraqi citizens. He is in violation of his oath to defend the constitution by working with the heads of state of both Canada and Mexico to form something called the North American Union, (http://www.novatownhall.com/blog/2007/07/north_american_union.php)
(http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965). And yet, our federal prosecutors only think Barry Bonds is deserving of their attention. Indeed listen to this from Bill Moyers Journal:

“President Bush and Vice President Cheney espouse the theory of the unitary executive. That means the President’s orders can’t be reviewed, questioned, or altered by the other two branches of government. He alone can say what the law means, or whether or not it will be enforced or ignored. In effect, George W. Bush says his powers must be unilateral and unchecked.
Critics claim the President has used the war on terror to put himself above the law and that he has created a secret presidency of classified decisions and orders, that approve extraordinary renditions, torture, illegal detentions, and wiretapping without warrants with the collaboration of big telecom companies. This boundless secrecy and surveillance evokes images counter to American values. ”

Muskasey will not uphold the standards of decency (ie. Torture) during wartime and no one blinks. Barry Bonds gets indicted for perjury, basically for lying to the lawyers who lie as much as they breathe and America (racist America, that is) wants to celebrate. What hypocrisy! A majority of people in this country need to get their priorities straight.

Al

Once again the main point is that Bonds did not violate MLB rules even if he used “cream” or any other form of steroids. That’s a fact! Steroids used were not prohibited by MLB at the time and in fact all baseball players were encouraged to use steroids and other performance enhancers. So why is Bonds being indicted for an activity that was not illegal.

Also how does Bonds having an affair is evidence that he used steroids? Maybe you need viagra but I’ll assume that Bonds is quite “capable”. Peter you argument boarder on the absurd and are full of conjecture like the racist sports writers who desire to see the downfall of an uppity “negro”.

You’ve also argued false parallels such as Pete Rose — in order to try to “white” - wash your argument. However Rose, whom I met, IS accused of violating MLB rules — betting on baseball. Bonds on the other hand did not violate MLB rules regarding steroids use and as such was able to continue his playing career.

As a fan, I would like to see anyone who uses performance enhancers treated harshly by the sport. That goes for McGwire & Sosa as well, whose records should have asterisks or be removed.

As a fan I don’t really give a shit. I’m sick and tired of the owners screwing citizens by shifting the tax and debt burdens for their fucking stadiums. You can’t find a decent playground to play a good game softball. I’m sick and tired of the theater, the arts, and music being crowed out because of professional sports because they cannot get funding.

Also as a fan, during different eras, players found other ways to “enhance” or degrade their performance. Mickey Mantle was a boozer, Hank Aaron took speed. Both still had to hit the goddamn baseball. Think about facing Sandy Koufax throwing a 100 mph fastball and hitting it performance enhanced or not. Neither you nor I could do that even if they pumped us up full of steroids, speed, LSD or whatever the hell drug.

And as Tim Wise observes during that eras best loved by Bob Costas the best performance enhancer for MLB players was the fact that Blacks were excluded.

So Peter, it’s time to wake up from your Disneyland fantasy about professional baseball if you profess to be a Marxist.

I disagree with accepting one type of performance enhancer (speed) and rejecting another (steroids). All of these performance enhancers has side effects. The real issue is why they are needed and perhaps an analysis of the entire culture of sports and capitalism is needed

He hasn’t tested positive for anabolics because that’s not what he was using - he was using the cream and the clear, which are very difficult to test for under laboratory conditions. However, his association with Greg Anderson, a known drug distributor, with BALCO, whose owner openly flaunted distributing drugs, the testimony of people like his mistress Kimberly Bell add up to evidence he did use performance enhancers.

As a Marxist I agree that the drive for players and owners to make more money and increase profit rates drives all of this. I would like to see baseball collectivized and taken out of the profit realm as much as any other industry.

As a fan, I would like to see anyone who uses performance enhancers treated harshly by the sport. That goes for McGwire & Sosa as well, whose records should have asterisks or be removed.

I have no love for the multi-millionaire Barry Bonds or any other baseball millionaires, whose connection to the working class is tangential at best even if their surplus value is being robbed by the bourgeoisie.

I disagree. All of these performance enhancers have side-effects so to focus on one and ignore another is duplicitous. The question is why are performance enhancers necessary or encouraged. The reason has to do with economics and the constant pressure put on players to perform and our culture of sports and capitalist ownership. In other words further examination of the socio-economic factors.

That’s that is not the basis of the indictment. The basis of the indictment is whether he LIED about taking steroids. Steroid use was NOT against the MLB rules at the time of his supposed use. Perhaps that’s an issue with YOU. So called past baseball “heroes” took performance enhancers so it is duplicitous to judge today’s players and ignore past use.

There HAS been NO EVIDENCE presented regarding Bonds steriod use and he has NEVER tested positive for steriod use. There has only been circumstantial anecdotes. That’s not evidence. If and when there is evidence presented that Bonds did use steroids he still would not have broken any laws nor was he in violation of MLB rules. He probably due to the racist environment be found guilty of lying before the grand jury. However the question that is not being asked is why a grand jury investigation was needed for something that was legal unless it was designed to target Bonds.

Bonds has been quite outspoken especially about racism in baseball and the white sportswriters don’t like outspoken black ballplayers.

Are you kidding me? There’s tons of evidence that Bonds took steriods. Have you ever read “Game of Shadows”? Not only are there lab results, his former mistress’ testimony, and his own admissions to the jury, but his statistics don’t lie - as he got older he got “better” and hit more home runs over 35 than before. This is simply improbable for someone who isn’t juicing (ie, it’s never happened before to anyone in the history of baseball).

I find defenses of Bonds to be weak and based on accusations of racism instead of the truth - the man, like so many others in the sport, took steroids. I don’t care if it was officially in baseball’s rules or not - juicing is a cardinal sin in my book as a baseball fan and is the essence of cheating for an individual player. McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Bonds - I would throw them all out for good with Pete Rose.

Thomas. You refer to Canseco, semi-favorably at least. Have you read his book Juice? I can’t see how you could have, and still make the statement above.

The issue is not allowing the “free use” of anything. And you shouldn’t put speed in the same category as anabolic steroids and growth hormones. With regard to steroids and growth hormones, Canseco says the issues include extensive education regarding their effects and proper use; careful supervision of their taking with frequent medical monitoring; and further research.

Canseco also says, and I believe most knowledgeable persons agree with him: steroids in sports are here to stay.

Sterioids was not against the rules of baseball during the time McGwire was caught with steroids in his locker. There has been no evidence to date that Bonds took steroids. There is only the allegation that he lied on the witness stand. Racism is as racism does.

As a sports fan I would like to see *all* steroid abusers in the sport exposed and punished, not just Bonds.

I remember thinking when I read Juice by Jose Canseco: “but it’s not mainly about money, it’s mainly about power.” The owners — not just of baseball, or sports, but of the media, etc. — will LOSE money smiling, if necessary to control the game.

Barry Bonds will pay plenty to elude the federal legal eagles on his back.
Barry Bonds lawyers will get great “star pay” and to-the-moon career publicity.
Barry Bonds has already paid millions to lawyers for his D-I-V-O-R-C- E.

We are a country of lawyers who use the law to give us their personal and professional business.
O J is still chipping to the green and having a grand time.

Richard Pryor’s own lawyer sued Pryor and collected $500,000 because Pryor had honestly and publicly said;
“My own lawyer took me - hook, line, and sinker.

Johnnie Cochran is in lawyer heaven where every word commands a terrific fee.

Paul Hornung’s wife wrote an expose of pro football many years ago, when it was mostly white. She not only exposed the appalling behaviors of athletes, such as alcohol abuse and the common use of prostitutes, but the use of medications of various sorts to enhance performance. Steroids are a straw man. As Zirin has pointed out so many times, it is the team owners themselves who provide the encouragement for drug abuse and health abuse by athletes. Business, after all, is business. Barry Bonds is just one more Black sacrifice to appease racists, and the hyped persecution of steroid use a cover girl for the American delusion that the sports business is pure and represents what is best about America. It’s rotten to the core.

The issue here is simple - do we want sports to allow free use of anabolic steroids, growth hormones ,amphetamines and God knows what else? The answer is NO.

Bonds, universally acknowledged to be a totally self-centered and unpleasant person, is an obvious steroid user. Unlike Canseco, McGwire and Ken Caminiti he denied it over and over. He made the mistake of denying it while on the witness stand and is now going to pay the price.

And why did Mukasey get dragged into this. So progressives can be fooled into supporting Bonds??

Also I live in the SF Bay Area and it isn’t true that he is a hero here.