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	<title>Comments on: What You Can Do About The Tragedy of Industrial Agriculture</title>
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	<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: william</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8511</link>
		<dc:creator>william</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8511</guid>
		<description>In your last comment you have uncovered the real culprits behind the many ills that our civilization is facing: the concepts of ‘I’, ‘me’, and ‘mine’.  Ultimately, they are where the battle lies.  Thank you …</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In your last comment you have uncovered the real culprits behind the many ills that our civilization is facing: the concepts of ‘I’, ‘me’, and ‘mine’.  Ultimately, they are where the battle lies.  Thank you …</p>
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		<title>By: Marcelle Cendra</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8425</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcelle Cendra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8425</guid>
		<description>Dearest William:

Your intentions as far as I can see are pure, well-meaning, certainly. However, you opened an interesting door here...which we all might want to ponder a moment in a different light than perhaps you envisioned. That is, your Theory of Seeds incororates the "image" of Mother Theresa, and I was wondering whether or not you were privy to the recent article by Michael Parenti (and/or the works of others) on the subject of "The Saintly" MT. --MC  P.S. More importantly, Gandhi and King both stepped outside of their personal realms to reach "additional" people...and I'm wondering what's being done, if anything significant, in that regard vis-a-vis Agribusiness. Whether anything's even on the horizon. Possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dearest William:</p>
<p>Your intentions as far as I can see are pure, well-meaning, certainly. However, you opened an interesting door here&#8230;which we all might want to ponder a moment in a different light than perhaps you envisioned. That is, your Theory of Seeds incororates the &#8220;image&#8221; of Mother Theresa, and I was wondering whether or not you were privy to the recent article by Michael Parenti (and/or the works of others) on the subject of &#8220;The Saintly&#8221; MT. &#8211;MC  P.S. More importantly, Gandhi and King both stepped outside of their personal realms to reach &#8220;additional&#8221; people&#8230;and I&#8217;m wondering what&#8217;s being done, if anything significant, in that regard vis-a-vis Agribusiness. Whether anything&#8217;s even on the horizon. Possible.</p>
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		<title>By: william</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8416</link>
		<dc:creator>william</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 15:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8416</guid>
		<description>Hi Marcelle,

To the extent that we buy into the false idea ‘I am a person’, we believe that we need to inform every ‘one’. This is not true - every person is a conduit to the ‘collective consciousness’, and in a real sense, to inform the few is to inform the many.

Ideas are seeds, and it is often more effective to plant an idea into the mind of a sleeping person (even if that sleep is ‘soma-induced’).  It is all in the seed and in the planting. 

Each human being is a unique package of properties and methods, and there is no telling how the ‘idea’ will manifest through a particular one; but when the idea reaches critical mass, a Gandhi or Mother Teresa or Martin Luther King will appear to inspire the collective action.

Regarding ‘Big Demons’, to the asymmetric warrior they are the best kind - easy to see.  Often it takes a person of clear vision to point them out so that others also see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Marcelle,</p>
<p>To the extent that we buy into the false idea ‘I am a person’, we believe that we need to inform every ‘one’. This is not true - every person is a conduit to the ‘collective consciousness’, and in a real sense, to inform the few is to inform the many.</p>
<p>Ideas are seeds, and it is often more effective to plant an idea into the mind of a sleeping person (even if that sleep is ‘soma-induced’).  It is all in the seed and in the planting. </p>
<p>Each human being is a unique package of properties and methods, and there is no telling how the ‘idea’ will manifest through a particular one; but when the idea reaches critical mass, a Gandhi or Mother Teresa or Martin Luther King will appear to inspire the collective action.</p>
<p>Regarding ‘Big Demons’, to the asymmetric warrior they are the best kind - easy to see.  Often it takes a person of clear vision to point them out so that others also see.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcelle Cendra</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8399</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcelle Cendra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 01:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8399</guid>
		<description>Dear William:

Thanks for following up your initial contribution as per my request/suggestion. On the most fundamental level, yes...the thrust of what you're saying is true. However, haven't the Big Agricultural Demons co-opted the organic movement to a great degree, watering down meaningful standards? To a significant degree. And the notion that if people know something is harmful for them they'll act appropriately...isn't that primarily "wishful." In fact, hasn't the scorecard been in on genetically modified crap for quite some time? Yes. Haven't politicians (who seem to be "required" by the public) not acted on that info thus far...very much? Yes. Postings and comments like what's here are valuable. And necessary. But the value is extremely limited. First, there's the fact that The Choir is basically what's tuning into the new additions to the valuable info here and elsewhere. Secondly, in the world of implementation...there's the kind of Aldous Huxley effect going on...whereby even stuff that people should know better about (do know better about considering what's been published)...is not acted on meaningfully. Like immunizations for school and radiation from cell phones. There are tons of other examples too. Examples of PR winning out over common sense and grounded research findings. What say you and you all?  MC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear William:</p>
<p>Thanks for following up your initial contribution as per my request/suggestion. On the most fundamental level, yes&#8230;the thrust of what you&#8217;re saying is true. However, haven&#8217;t the Big Agricultural Demons co-opted the organic movement to a great degree, watering down meaningful standards? To a significant degree. And the notion that if people know something is harmful for them they&#8217;ll act appropriately&#8230;isn&#8217;t that primarily &#8220;wishful.&#8221; In fact, hasn&#8217;t the scorecard been in on genetically modified crap for quite some time? Yes. Haven&#8217;t politicians (who seem to be &#8220;required&#8221; by the public) not acted on that info thus far&#8230;very much? Yes. Postings and comments like what&#8217;s here are valuable. And necessary. But the value is extremely limited. First, there&#8217;s the fact that The Choir is basically what&#8217;s tuning into the new additions to the valuable info here and elsewhere. Secondly, in the world of implementation&#8230;there&#8217;s the kind of Aldous Huxley effect going on&#8230;whereby even stuff that people should know better about (do know better about considering what&#8217;s been published)&#8230;is not acted on meaningfully. Like immunizations for school and radiation from cell phones. There are tons of other examples too. Examples of PR winning out over common sense and grounded research findings. What say you and you all?  MC</p>
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		<title>By: william</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8370</link>
		<dc:creator>william</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 16:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8370</guid>
		<description>The multinational biotechs are a physical force; the idea in the minds of the people that GMO's comprise health safety risks is the counter physical force. 

People who believe that genetically modified foods are unhealthy will not buy foods that contain them, and they will demand labeling laws so that they know what they are buying.   This real market force (an idea), forces suppliers to react (e.g., the recent reaction against rBGH). 

The explosion in the demand for organics over the last ten years  further illustrates the power of an idea.

So blogs like this one are the real 'activism' - they create, nurture, and maintain the right idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The multinational biotechs are a physical force; the idea in the minds of the people that GMO&#8217;s comprise health safety risks is the counter physical force. </p>
<p>People who believe that genetically modified foods are unhealthy will not buy foods that contain them, and they will demand labeling laws so that they know what they are buying.   This real market force (an idea), forces suppliers to react (e.g., the recent reaction against rBGH). </p>
<p>The explosion in the demand for organics over the last ten years  further illustrates the power of an idea.</p>
<p>So blogs like this one are the real &#8216;activism&#8217; - they create, nurture, and maintain the right idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcelle Cendra</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8344</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcelle Cendra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 04:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8344</guid>
		<description>Perhaps it would be beneficial for you (Anthony) to pen in a few of the suggestions in Tudge's book...here. The "how to get there from here" angles, I'm sure, would be very welcome. MC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps it would be beneficial for you (Anthony) to pen in a few of the suggestions in Tudge&#8217;s book&#8230;here. The &#8220;how to get there from here&#8221; angles, I&#8217;m sure, would be very welcome. MC</p>
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		<title>By: anthony innes</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8335</link>
		<dc:creator>anthony innes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 23:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8335</guid>
		<description>further to this valuable discussion and those interested.
One of the very best sources for an informed researched take on global food issues is:
So Shall We  Reap
Author  Colin Tudge 
Publisher Penguin.ISBN # 0-141-00950-0
Whats wrong with world food and How to FIX it.This brilliant stuff from a man who credentials are impeccable.This is the clearest,most sensible presentation of where we are up to and why it has to change and realistically how to get there from here.I have given it to ultra conservative  farmers,financial administrators and disaffected kids who all come back to me with thanks for saving them years of downtime coming to understand the problemn.PLEASE help this man's study be more widely discussed.If you are considering diet and food production this is for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>further to this valuable discussion and those interested.<br />
One of the very best sources for an informed researched take on global food issues is:<br />
So Shall We  Reap<br />
Author  Colin Tudge<br />
Publisher Penguin.ISBN # 0-141-00950-0<br />
Whats wrong with world food and How to FIX it.This brilliant stuff from a man who credentials are impeccable.This is the clearest,most sensible presentation of where we are up to and why it has to change and realistically how to get there from here.I have given it to ultra conservative  farmers,financial administrators and disaffected kids who all come back to me with thanks for saving them years of downtime coming to understand the problemn.PLEASE help this man&#8217;s study be more widely discussed.If you are considering diet and food production this is for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcelle Cendra</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8268</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcelle Cendra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 14:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8268</guid>
		<description>For the purpose of focusing on "activism," permit me to make one point here with regard to William's entry. I have no argument with what he's saying about scientific proclamations. Of course not. However, this comment provides a  good example of something that's "wrong" with those wanting to actually "fight" our present momentum. That is, there's a spotlight on what we can expect to turn out in findings of the future, but no comment on the most important part of the article, the call for action. It's a no-brainer that the scorecard is in on the science, even if the official proclamations are lagging. In the meantime, what are we going to do about this situation? If anyone else adds a comment here, I'd really appreciate an additional word or two about that aspect of the piece. Not that I don't appreciate William's contribution here, I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the purpose of focusing on &#8220;activism,&#8221; permit me to make one point here with regard to William&#8217;s entry. I have no argument with what he&#8217;s saying about scientific proclamations. Of course not. However, this comment provides a  good example of something that&#8217;s &#8220;wrong&#8221; with those wanting to actually &#8220;fight&#8221; our present momentum. That is, there&#8217;s a spotlight on what we can expect to turn out in findings of the future, but no comment on the most important part of the article, the call for action. It&#8217;s a no-brainer that the scorecard is in on the science, even if the official proclamations are lagging. In the meantime, what are we going to do about this situation? If anyone else adds a comment here, I&#8217;d really appreciate an additional word or two about that aspect of the piece. Not that I don&#8217;t appreciate William&#8217;s contribution here, I do.</p>
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		<title>By: william</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8252</link>
		<dc:creator>william</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 04:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8252</guid>
		<description>Regarding the potential health hazards of genetically engineered seeds,  'absence of proof is not proof of absence'.  I believe it is only a matter of time before science catches up with GMO's and discovers serious, unforeseen health-safety consequences.

Pro-GMO activists will say that we have been doing 'genetic modification'  for centuries, so what's new?   Recombinant DNA technology was first discovered in 1973,  and seeds created from this technology (GMO's) were not marketed until 1996.  This technology (which allows not only trans-species transgenics, but also trans-kingdom transgencis)  is dangerous, and its discovery triggered the 1975 Asilomar Conference in Pacific Grove, California.

From a July 1, 2007 article in the New York Times (’A Challenge to Gene Theory, a Tougher Look at Biotech’ - Denise Caruso):  “Evidence of a networked genome shatters the scientific basis for virtually every official risk assessment of today’s commercial biotech products, from genetically engineered crops to pharmaceuticals.”  

So it goes with scientific proclamations: safe today, health hazard tomorrow.

Let's hope it's not too late when science catches up – once they are let loose on the environment,  you cannot call genes back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the potential health hazards of genetically engineered seeds,  &#8216;absence of proof is not proof of absence&#8217;.  I believe it is only a matter of time before science catches up with GMO&#8217;s and discovers serious, unforeseen health-safety consequences.</p>
<p>Pro-GMO activists will say that we have been doing &#8216;genetic modification&#8217;  for centuries, so what&#8217;s new?   Recombinant DNA technology was first discovered in 1973,  and seeds created from this technology (GMO&#8217;s) were not marketed until 1996.  This technology (which allows not only trans-species transgenics, but also trans-kingdom transgencis)  is dangerous, and its discovery triggered the 1975 Asilomar Conference in Pacific Grove, California.</p>
<p>From a July 1, 2007 article in the New York Times (’A Challenge to Gene Theory, a Tougher Look at Biotech’ - Denise Caruso):  “Evidence of a networked genome shatters the scientific basis for virtually every official risk assessment of today’s commercial biotech products, from genetically engineered crops to pharmaceuticals.”  </p>
<p>So it goes with scientific proclamations: safe today, health hazard tomorrow.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s hope it&#8217;s not too late when science catches up – once they are let loose on the environment,  you cannot call genes back.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kenny</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8242</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8242</guid>
		<description>Devinda Sharma's answer applies not just to India and not just to agriculture! The world is sick and fed up with being given a choice only between being bullied and pushed around in their own countries by right-wing Americans and being bullied and pushed around in their own countries by left-wing Americans. The implicit assertion of master race status by people who are largely the descendants of Europe's failures is both absurd and offensive. "Come home, America" said George McGovern many years ago. The modern generation of Americans should heed his advice!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Devinda Sharma&#8217;s answer applies not just to India and not just to agriculture! The world is sick and fed up with being given a choice only between being bullied and pushed around in their own countries by right-wing Americans and being bullied and pushed around in their own countries by left-wing Americans. The implicit assertion of master race status by people who are largely the descendants of Europe&#8217;s failures is both absurd and offensive. &#8220;Come home, America&#8221; said George McGovern many years ago. The modern generation of Americans should heed his advice!</p>
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		<title>By: Mitchell Perdue</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8241</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitchell Perdue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8241</guid>
		<description>Great info! Went to Amazon and picked up a copy of  Fatal Harvest Reader.  It is true that checks and balances are a fallacy.  More people are waking up, and informed people like you are helping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great info! Went to Amazon and picked up a copy of  Fatal Harvest Reader.  It is true that checks and balances are a fallacy.  More people are waking up, and informed people like you are helping.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcelle Cendra</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8233</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcelle Cendra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/what-you-can-do-to-about-the-tragedy-of-industrial-agriculture/#comment-8233</guid>
		<description>The updated figures for India...figures which the government has officially accepted...are 100,000 farmers having committed suicide between 1993-2003...18,000 on average per year following that...adding up to 150,000 to date. --MC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The updated figures for India&#8230;figures which the government has officially accepted&#8230;are 100,000 farmers having committed suicide between 1993-2003&#8230;18,000 on average per year following that&#8230;adding up to 150,000 to date. &#8211;MC</p>
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