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	<title>Comments on: The Shocking Disaster of Capitalism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Susan Rosenthal</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8388</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Rosenthal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 21:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8388</guid>
		<description>Martha,
I checked with the editors of Dissident Voice, and no one knows why or how your comment was removed.
So there was no bad will here. 
It may be moot, at this point, to resubmit your comment, which is what the editor recommended. 
Susan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martha,<br />
I checked with the editors of Dissident Voice, and no one knows why or how your comment was removed.<br />
So there was no bad will here.<br />
It may be moot, at this point, to resubmit your comment, which is what the editor recommended.<br />
Susan</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8296</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8296</guid>
		<description>I'm the woman who got removed.  It was just a mistake.  Eddie was more offended that my comment was removed than he was about the mistake.  I probably will not post again because I have no idea why my comment was removed.  Thank you to Eddie for sticking up for me.  To Dr. Rosenthal, as my original comment pointed out, this was an easy mistake to make.  People do confuse the two and they both have new books out.  I wasn't offended by the mistake.  I noticed it when a blog pointed out.  The blogger wasn't offended by it either.  Maybe the fact that I noted the blog is why my post was removed?  I won't risk giving due credit this time in the hope that this my comment (my last here ever) gets posted.  Thank you to Eddie.  Thank you to Dr. Rosenthal for correcting the  honest error.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the woman who got removed.  It was just a mistake.  Eddie was more offended that my comment was removed than he was about the mistake.  I probably will not post again because I have no idea why my comment was removed.  Thank you to Eddie for sticking up for me.  To Dr. Rosenthal, as my original comment pointed out, this was an easy mistake to make.  People do confuse the two and they both have new books out.  I wasn&#8217;t offended by the mistake.  I noticed it when a blog pointed out.  The blogger wasn&#8217;t offended by it either.  Maybe the fact that I noted the blog is why my post was removed?  I won&#8217;t risk giving due credit this time in the hope that this my comment (my last here ever) gets posted.  Thank you to Eddie.  Thank you to Dr. Rosenthal for correcting the  honest error.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Rosenthal</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8258</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Rosenthal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8258</guid>
		<description>Eddie,
Thank you for pointing out my mistake in identifying Naomi Klein as the co-founder of the American Freedom Campaign.
I deeply appreciate your effort to safeguard the accuracy of what is posted on Dissident Voice.
I have sent a revised review to Dissident Voice that contains a correction notice, an apology and approporate text changes.
And, again, I apologize to all concerned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eddie,<br />
Thank you for pointing out my mistake in identifying Naomi Klein as the co-founder of the American Freedom Campaign.<br />
I deeply appreciate your effort to safeguard the accuracy of what is posted on Dissident Voice.<br />
I have sent a revised review to Dissident Voice that contains a correction notice, an apology and approporate text changes.<br />
And, again, I apologize to all concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Rosenthal</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8256</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Rosenthal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8256</guid>
		<description>Eddie is correct.
The error is mine.
Naomi Wolf, not Naomi Klein, is the co-rounder of the AFC.
Apologies to all
Susan Rosenthal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eddie is correct.<br />
The error is mine.<br />
Naomi Wolf, not Naomi Klein, is the co-rounder of the AFC.<br />
Apologies to all<br />
Susan Rosenthal</p>
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		<title>By: Hue Longer</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8246</link>
		<dc:creator>Hue Longer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8246</guid>
		<description>Hello Eddie,

Interesting...please email that to the editors and if  the letter was as you say, I believe they would restore it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Eddie,</p>
<p>Interesting&#8230;please email that to the editors and if  the letter was as you say, I believe they would restore it.</p>
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		<title>By: Eddie</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8227</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8227</guid>
		<description>Why did someone's comment get removed?  A woman posted here yesterday pointing out that Naomi WOLF not Naomi Klein is a founder of American Freedom Campaign.  That's a BIG POINT.  Deleting that comment is ridiculous.  The author is wrong.  Naomi Klein isn't in AFC.  Instead of deleting comments gently pointing that out, Dissident Voice needs to run a correction.  In fact, if I remember right from last night, the woman's comment had links in it so Dissident Voice should have already verified the woman's points.  Naomi Klein is not in AFC.  Correct the mistake.  Restore the comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why did someone&#8217;s comment get removed?  A woman posted here yesterday pointing out that Naomi WOLF not Naomi Klein is a founder of American Freedom Campaign.  That&#8217;s a BIG POINT.  Deleting that comment is ridiculous.  The author is wrong.  Naomi Klein isn&#8217;t in AFC.  Instead of deleting comments gently pointing that out, Dissident Voice needs to run a correction.  In fact, if I remember right from last night, the woman&#8217;s comment had links in it so Dissident Voice should have already verified the woman&#8217;s points.  Naomi Klein is not in AFC.  Correct the mistake.  Restore the comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8214</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8214</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Mass media, controlled by capitalism, won’t organize man to temper capitalism. It has been doing just the opposite. But, in the new age of information, an uncontrolled and free media, like the internet, can.&lt;/i&gt;

Unfortunately the prior poster argument are fallacious.  While the Internet is currently open it may not remain that way.  Take a look at the history of radio.  The Telecommunication Act of 1996 was the start of the privatization of the Internet and the Internet itself was NOT develop to serve the public but is an artifact of the Cold War.

What the prior poster ignores is that working class is divided and split and lacks solidarity.  Unbridled "greed" benefits the ruling class and as resource become difficult to obtain will lead to barbarism that also benefits the powerful.

Right now from my perspective racism, Zionism, and identity politics maintain division and distrust much less ignorance and other media distractions.  However there are some bright spots.  Right now the resistance by other countries resisting U.S. (and Israeli) aggression provides hope.  The trends in Latin America also provides hope.

There is an arrogance within Marxism that the workers from the predominately white countries would lead the world to socialism.  Apparently during this epoch it is not so.  I think the trend is that the rest of the world will lead the west and white countries toward a better way and just way to organize economies cooperatively and democratically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Mass media, controlled by capitalism, won’t organize man to temper capitalism. It has been doing just the opposite. But, in the new age of information, an uncontrolled and free media, like the internet, can.</i></p>
<p>Unfortunately the prior poster argument are fallacious.  While the Internet is currently open it may not remain that way.  Take a look at the history of radio.  The Telecommunication Act of 1996 was the start of the privatization of the Internet and the Internet itself was NOT develop to serve the public but is an artifact of the Cold War.</p>
<p>What the prior poster ignores is that working class is divided and split and lacks solidarity.  Unbridled &#8220;greed&#8221; benefits the ruling class and as resource become difficult to obtain will lead to barbarism that also benefits the powerful.</p>
<p>Right now from my perspective racism, Zionism, and identity politics maintain division and distrust much less ignorance and other media distractions.  However there are some bright spots.  Right now the resistance by other countries resisting U.S. (and Israeli) aggression provides hope.  The trends in Latin America also provides hope.</p>
<p>There is an arrogance within Marxism that the workers from the predominately white countries would lead the world to socialism.  Apparently during this epoch it is not so.  I think the trend is that the rest of the world will lead the west and white countries toward a better way and just way to organize economies cooperatively and democratically.</p>
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		<title>By: Kishore Kumar</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8203</link>
		<dc:creator>Kishore Kumar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8203</guid>
		<description>Current economic systems are rooted in materialism. Materialism comes from man's identification with body and mind, while man's spiritual component is ignored. Economic systems, in fact all institutions created by man, should serve the  whole man. 

If man identifies with the soul, and the spiritual side of man is catered to, then institutions will no longer be designed to encourage exploitation of others. Institutions will then be in line with man's real nature, of spiritual beings, to serve the entire mankind.

I disagree with Klien's "revelations", "there are three forces that can defeat capitalism: the organized working class, the politics of marxism and the principles of solidarity."

The working class is indeed the exploited class but it is also dependent on capitalism. Marxism has already proven to be a failure. Even China is embracing capitalism. Solidarity of a group can be both used and abused. Solidarity of a group does not inherently mean that it is for the good of other groups.

"Defeating" capitalism need not be a goal. After all, it has brought unparalleled benefits to man. It is just the unbridled greed of capitalism that needs to be tempered. 

Mass media, controlled by capitalism, won't organize man to temper capitalism. It has been doing just the opposite. But, in the new age of information, an uncontrolled and free media, like the internet, can. Maybe, the internet will, indeed, become the independent media that a majority of people will utilize to get organized in, on a world-wide basis, to usher in a new age of enlightenment that will help man to identify with man's inherently spiritual nature, to eliminate and resolve conflicts caused by material or economic disparities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Current economic systems are rooted in materialism. Materialism comes from man&#8217;s identification with body and mind, while man&#8217;s spiritual component is ignored. Economic systems, in fact all institutions created by man, should serve the  whole man. </p>
<p>If man identifies with the soul, and the spiritual side of man is catered to, then institutions will no longer be designed to encourage exploitation of others. Institutions will then be in line with man&#8217;s real nature, of spiritual beings, to serve the entire mankind.</p>
<p>I disagree with Klien&#8217;s &#8220;revelations&#8221;, &#8220;there are three forces that can defeat capitalism: the organized working class, the politics of marxism and the principles of solidarity.&#8221;</p>
<p>The working class is indeed the exploited class but it is also dependent on capitalism. Marxism has already proven to be a failure. Even China is embracing capitalism. Solidarity of a group can be both used and abused. Solidarity of a group does not inherently mean that it is for the good of other groups.</p>
<p>&#8220;Defeating&#8221; capitalism need not be a goal. After all, it has brought unparalleled benefits to man. It is just the unbridled greed of capitalism that needs to be tempered. </p>
<p>Mass media, controlled by capitalism, won&#8217;t organize man to temper capitalism. It has been doing just the opposite. But, in the new age of information, an uncontrolled and free media, like the internet, can. Maybe, the internet will, indeed, become the independent media that a majority of people will utilize to get organized in, on a world-wide basis, to usher in a new age of enlightenment that will help man to identify with man&#8217;s inherently spiritual nature, to eliminate and resolve conflicts caused by material or economic disparities.</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd Rowsey</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8187</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd Rowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8187</guid>
		<description>Two months or so ago, Dissident Voice printed an excerpt from the Introduction to Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine, and in reaction to it I posted, "We are all Kleinists now."  After reading on the book subsequently, I am less enthusiastic, and I share Susan Rosenthal's reservations.  Especially Rosenthal's reservations about Klein's compulsive liberalism.  

Plus I have an additional reservation or two of my own.  

Klein repeatedly indulges in historical superficiality and oversimplifications, both of which alert the reader to her lack of specific knowledge or her lack of a concern for it.   For example, on page 58 of The Shock Doctrine, Klein writes: "In 1953....when large portions of the globe were turning to Stalinism and Maoism..."   Now, if Klein is referring just to the USSR and China, Stalin was dead and so the statement is meaningless; if she is referring to the "large" portions of the world outside of the USSR and China, the statement is patently false.   Another example is on page 56, where Klein characterizes Milton Freidman as "a brilliant mathematician."   In fact, the hallmark of Freidman's brilliance (if there ever was one) could only have been his Nobel Prize, and it was for Economics.   There is no Nobel Prize for Mathematics; the Economics Nobel has long been a source of controversy if not outright embarrassment to the Swedes and to the world; and no Economics Nobel Prize has ever gone to a brilliant mathematician.

Still, I have great admiration for The Shock Doctrine, and I was enchanted by the author's prose as well a by her astounding synthesis of so many elements of a truly radical critique of contemporary capitalism.  We have sorely lacked such a critique.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two months or so ago, Dissident Voice printed an excerpt from the Introduction to Naomi Klein&#8217;s The Shock Doctrine, and in reaction to it I posted, &#8220;We are all Kleinists now.&#8221;  After reading on the book subsequently, I am less enthusiastic, and I share Susan Rosenthal&#8217;s reservations.  Especially Rosenthal&#8217;s reservations about Klein&#8217;s compulsive liberalism.  </p>
<p>Plus I have an additional reservation or two of my own.  </p>
<p>Klein repeatedly indulges in historical superficiality and oversimplifications, both of which alert the reader to her lack of specific knowledge or her lack of a concern for it.   For example, on page 58 of The Shock Doctrine, Klein writes: &#8220;In 1953&#8230;.when large portions of the globe were turning to Stalinism and Maoism&#8230;&#8221;   Now, if Klein is referring just to the USSR and China, Stalin was dead and so the statement is meaningless; if she is referring to the &#8220;large&#8221; portions of the world outside of the USSR and China, the statement is patently false.   Another example is on page 56, where Klein characterizes Milton Freidman as &#8220;a brilliant mathematician.&#8221;   In fact, the hallmark of Freidman&#8217;s brilliance (if there ever was one) could only have been his Nobel Prize, and it was for Economics.   There is no Nobel Prize for Mathematics; the Economics Nobel has long been a source of controversy if not outright embarrassment to the Swedes and to the world; and no Economics Nobel Prize has ever gone to a brilliant mathematician.</p>
<p>Still, I have great admiration for The Shock Doctrine, and I was enchanted by the author&#8217;s prose as well a by her astounding synthesis of so many elements of a truly radical critique of contemporary capitalism.  We have sorely lacked such a critique.</p>
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		<title>By: AJ Nasreddin</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8151</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ Nasreddin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/the-shocking-disaster-of-capitalism/#comment-8151</guid>
		<description>Alija Izetbegović wrote in his work "Islam Between East and West" that the bottom line is that communist or socialist economic systems and capitalism are the same - degrading to humanity. 

If anyone is trying to find humanity in a system which meant to deal with material objects, then humanity will become nothing more than an object. The answer cannot lie in how we buy and sell, but in moral principles about how we do everything in life, including buying and selling. Self worth cannot come from how much money we make or how much we produce for the company - self worth cannot be measured in money.

If America and other capitalist or communist countries steal and kill for money, we cannot blame the economic system for it. What book on economics or business says "Thou shalt kill for profit!"? If you want to counter the ill effects of capitalism - get religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alija Izetbegović wrote in his work &#8220;Islam Between East and West&#8221; that the bottom line is that communist or socialist economic systems and capitalism are the same - degrading to humanity. </p>
<p>If anyone is trying to find humanity in a system which meant to deal with material objects, then humanity will become nothing more than an object. The answer cannot lie in how we buy and sell, but in moral principles about how we do everything in life, including buying and selling. Self worth cannot come from how much money we make or how much we produce for the company - self worth cannot be measured in money.</p>
<p>If America and other capitalist or communist countries steal and kill for money, we cannot blame the economic system for it. What book on economics or business says &#8220;Thou shalt kill for profit!&#8221;? If you want to counter the ill effects of capitalism - get religion.</p>
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