The Puzzling Suspension of Incredulity to the “Official” 9-11 Theory

Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory
By David Ray Griffin
(Olive Branch Press, 2007)
ISBN: 978-1-56656-686-5

According to a categorical assertion by the Association of Muslim Scholars’ most senior member, al-Fayyadh, the Iraqi resistance has killed no less than 35,000 US soldiers and wounded no less than 70 thousand…1

The outrageous neocon-concocted lies of the Iraqi government being in possession of weapons-of-mass destruction, that US forces were liberating the Iraqi people, that only 30,000 Iraqis have been killed, that the invasion-occupation was not about seizing control of Iraqi oil, that the US was not aiding Israeli interests have all been exposed. Given the plethora of undeniable mendacity surrounding the immoral, illegal, and lethal enterprise of aggressing Iraq (not to forget Afghanistan), it is utterly amazing that some people, especially progressives, continue to cling to the version of “reality” spun by the neocons and Zionists.

That media continue to publish the relatively low number of fatalities among US soldiers, and completely ignore other accounts, is mind-boggling. Yet, the corporate media (and most progressive media) remain fixed on a much lower figure approaching 4000.

But, most mind-boggling is the dearth of skepticism to the neocons’ version of what happened on 9-11 — the event that was seized upon as a justification for what is a litany of war crimes and crimes against humanity wreaked by the US state — including the supreme international crime, as determined by the Nuremberg Tribunal, described as encapsulating “the accumulated evil of the whole.”

Progressivism and 9-11 Truth Seeking

Yet some progressives have taken to castigating fellow progressives for coming to conclusions about 9-11 that differ from the US government version (a feat which really calls into question the castigators’ adherence to tenets of progressivism, such as a commitment to diversity, free inquiry, freedom of thought, and free speech). It also leaves such critics open to charges of left gatekeeping. Of course, these voices that adhere to the “official” neocon version of 9-11 have a right to present their opinions, but to determine in what way other people should direct their energies and disparage them for not heeding their advice is regressive with the ultimate result that it argues against encouraging people to think critically for themselves.

I previously wrote an article to this effect.2 Some people quibbled with certain points.

One reader questioned my, supposedly, referring to the “scientific evidence,” as per the noted writer on 9-11, Noam Chomsky, as “essentially worthless.” What I wrote is that I share Chomsky’s skepticism, but importantly, I added a proviso: “not the level of skepticism.” In other words, I do not consider the evidence as “essentially worthless.”

The article was not an examination or analysis of the evidence. Instead, it was about how some progressives engage in disparaging an involved citizenry. I found this unprincipled and supported the right of people to seek “truth.”

Science and 9-11

Certainly, the “official” 9-11 view is not scientific. It is a post hoc explanation designed to fit a preconceived agenda. Although scientists will try to explain phenomena, science is not driven a posteriori but by testable hypotheses where experiments are conducted or natural observations are carried out. This is the scientific method. To date, I know of no controlled experiments carried out to test whether steel-laced high rises will collapse demolition- or pancake-style when struck by airplanes.

Another reader, John Pontrello, presented a very compelling rationale for such experimentation and why the “official” 9-11 theory has huger ramification:

[I]f the official conspiracy theory is true, we had better vacate every building in the United States immediately in case a fire breaks out and the building collapses killing thousands of people. Also, being that a building collapse is far riskier on all fronts than damage and casualty from fire, every building owner in America should be forced to insure specifically against pancake collapse. All high rise buildings should be temporarily evacuated until such a time when they are properly studied to ensure that they will not spontaneously collapse killing thousands of people. 9/11 has really opened up the possibility that buildings spontaneously collapse, so I argue that they should not be used anymore until they are proven safe. If three people were tossed and killed from a roller coaster on one day, would you put your children on it? Furthermore, every building in America should abandon evacuation drills for fire and replace those mandatory drills with Pancake evacuation drills where something like window ejection with parachutes are provided, since stairwell evacuations will not protect one from the upper floors falling on them.

He also challenged me: “get off the fence and pick your side Kim.”

To pronounce on 9-11 requires, preferably, either expertise in the matter at hand or a willingness to delve deeply into a plethora of evidence (at least that which has been made available; the non-release of evidence throws the Bush administration under heavy suspicion) and attempt to sort fact from fiction, possibility from impossibility, probability from improbability. I am naturally skeptical, and I have always been deeply skeptical of the “official” explanations emanating from the corporate media (and progressive media) and government about 9-11.

But there must be a way to lean toward what best approximates the truth. One way, is to determine motives. A well recognized motive has always been personal enrichment. Evidence from 9-11 points to many protagonists in this regard, including people within the military-industrial complex and one World Trade Center owner. The motive attached to the alleged 9-11 attackers of hating American freedoms is risibly pathetic and self-defeating for its promulgators in that since 9-11 American freedoms have been severely curtailed. If this was, indeed, the motivation of alleged 9-11 attackers, then it represents a victory for the alleged haters of American freedoms?

In addition to assessing motive, one should also, of course, examine what evidence is available. Science has been a point of contention among people in the 9-11 debate. In science, if one peg of a theory can be knocked out, then the theory should be abandoned. If one peg of the “official” 9-11 theory can be disproven, then the rest of the explanation is rendered dubious. The “official” 9-11 theory is attackable on nearly all its foundations, indicating just how wobbly it is.

Dr. David Ray Griffin has been a foremost writer on what transpired on 9-11, which he compellingly avers to be an insider job. Griffin is a theologian and some people attack him on this basis. This, however, is a thoroughly arrogant, elitist, and self-defeating argument that must be utterly refuted because of what it represents. First, it assumes that only experts are able to speak on a topic with authority. Second, it assumes that experts are correct, but that this is false is easily revealed by the fact that experts disagree among themselves. Third, it assumes that “average” folks cannot train themselves to become experts. Fourth, it assumes that “average” folks cannot understand the intricacies of specialized subject areas. The logical outcome of such assertions is that non-specialists must rely on experts to inform them how they should think — a complete sop to critical thinking and egalitarianism.

Griffin has done his homework and has written five books on 9-11. His latest is Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory. He assaults the “official conspiracy theory” from many quarters: the stupendous unlikelihood of cell phones operating at high altitude in 2001, the glaring discrepancies in “official” time sequences reported, the likelihood of the alleged pilots being able to carry out the maneuvers they are alleged to have done, the pancake theory of WTC buildings collapse, etc.

WTC 7

The weakest link in the “official” theory appears to be its explanation of the demolition-style collapse of WTC building 7: a building which was not struck by planes; had no demonstrably large, nor hot, fires burning; and was foretold as having collapsed ahead of time; and which the 9-11 Commission did not even try to explain.

Griffin asks why, if WTC 7 was awash in flames, no photographers and TV camera crews on the scene recorded this spectacle.

Griffin calls WTC 7 “one of the [9-11] Commission’s most amazing omissions. According to the official theory, building 7 demonstrated, contrary to the universal conviction prior to 9/11, that large steel-frame buildings could collapse from fire alone, even without having been hit by an airplane. This demonstration should have meant that building codes and insurance premiums for all steel-frame buildings in the world needed to be changed. And yet the 9/11 Commission, in preparing its 571-page report, did not devote a single sentence to this historic event.”

Griffin cites the demolition industry website Implosion World’s statement that an implosion is “by far the trickiest type of explosive project, and there are only a handful of blasting companies in the world that possess enough experience … to perform these true building implosions.” Griffin then asks: “Can anyone really believe that fire would have just happened to produce the kind of collapse that can be reliably produced by only a few demolition companies in the world?”

Griffin points out that there was extensive foreknowledge of WTC 7’s imminent collapse among firefighters and medical workers. Griffin quotes medical worker Decosta Wright: “they measured out how far the building was going to come, so we knew exactly where we could stand,” which was “5 blocks away.”

How was this foreknowledge explained? Damage plus fire — both of which Griffin deconstructs.

The words of WTC owner Larry Silverstein on PBS, give credence to a demolition about to occur: “I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, ‘We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.” And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.”

Wielding Occam’s Razor

Physicist Manuel Garcia took a stab at explaining the demolition-style collapse of WTC 7. He constructed a Mouse TrapTM-like explanation for how the “dark fire” formed and brought WTC 7 free falling into its footprint.

He writes of falling debris rupturing the oil pipes of a fuel distribution system, the fuel distribution system pumps oil up causing a diesel fuel gusher burning with excess air; the diesel fuel spill spreads out along Floor 5 and spills down elevator; oil pools near a truss and is ignited by local office fires, resulting in further combustion; heat is trapped; the thermally weakened truss fails, the loss of support low in the eastern interior propagates to the roof, the weight (and dynamic force) of material falling onto the diaphragm based on Floor 5 tips this rigid layer of the building, this causes failure of column joints to the diaphragm, lack of vertical support through the diaphragm progresses up the interior of the building west of Truss 2, a progressive collapse propagates up and material falls freely; since the building implodes, the exterior walls fall in.3

Nine-11 whistleblower Kevin Ryan says Garcia’s WTC explanations are “based on false or unsubstantiated claims” and disses the speculative “string of improbable events” in Garcia’s “dark fire” theory. Thereafter Ryan delves into ad hominem and the tactic of involving Garcia in a conspiracy theory.4

Peter Webster refutes Garcia’s WYC 7 shock wave explanation weakening integral parts of WTC 7.5 Webster claims the oscillations of the WTC buildings would have died out without further energy being pumped into the buildings, for example, by further plane crashes in resonance with the buildings’ oscillations or timed explosions.

To decide between the “official” 9-11 theory and the other theories proffered the 9-11 truth movement, Garcia suggests: “within the spirit of Occam’s Razor, of seeking explanations for the WTC building collapses that require the fewest number of ad hoc assumptions (e.g., no conspiracies).”

Occam’s Razor — also referred to as the Principle of Parsimony — holds that the simplest theory is preferable; therefore, any explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible. But Garcia relies heavily on assumptions in his “dark fire” theory.

The demolition theory is simple. It requires only that one assume that some person(s) rigged the WTC 7 with explosives. This is less crazy than assuming Osama bin Laden’s freedom-hating Arabs piloted the planes and set off the first ever fire-induced demolition of a high rise building.

Griffin utterly dismisses the National Institute of Standards and Technology (federal agency NIST) which theorized excessive falling debris and long-burning fires as being capable of bringing down WTC 7.

The most serious problem with this [NIST] theory, however, is that it is completely inadequate to the empirical facts. Damage to one face of the building plus small fires on a few floors – plus perhaps really big fires on the fifth floor — could not explain why the building collapsed on a debris pile only three stories high, as this would have required the 81 columns of this 47-story-high columns to break into several pieces simultaneously. This damage and fire could not explain why the building came down virtually free fall speed. They could not explain the squibs, the molten metal, or the sulfidized steel. The official theory, in other words, cannot explain why, if this was not an example of controlled implosion, it was a perfect imitation thereof.

Conclusion

Who is behind the 9-11 terrorist attack? Elsewhere Griffin answered:

It is, in any case, already possible to know, beyond a reasonable doubt, one very important thing: the destruction of the World Trade Center was an inside job, orchestrated by domestic terrorists. Foreign terrorists could not have gotten access to the buildings to plant the explosives. They probably would not have had the courtesy to make sure that the buildings collapsed straight down, rather than falling over onto surrounding buildings. Federal officials, however, could have gotten access and would have had motivation to bring the buildings straight down. They would also have had the ability to orchestrate a cover-up, from the quick disposal of the steel to the FEMA Report to The 9/11 Commission Report to the NIST Report.

The evidence that the destruction of the WTC was an inside job has thus far been largely ignored by the mainstream press, perhaps under the guise of obeying President Bush’s advice not to tolerate “outrageous conspiracy theories.” We have seen, however, that it is the Bush administration’s conspiracy theory that is the outrageous one, because it is violently contradicted by numerous facts, including some basic laws of physics.6

Griffin has proffered a theory counter to the “official” 9-11 theory. Those people dedicated to free thinking will reject the advice of some progressives to ignore non-“official” theories of 9-11 as “conspiracy”; they will consider competing theories that purport to explain the events of 9-11; they will arrive at their own conclusions.

Three WTC buildings fell straight down, demolition-style, into their footprints. The Bush administration stood by as forensic evidence was removed, and it blocked any meaningful investigation of 9-11. The “official” 9-11 theory asks me to trust those people proven untrustworthy and suspend my skepticism. This I will not do. Who the insiders of 9-11 are, I can only speculate.

Full skepticism, however, must greet the US government accusations that al Qaeda is behind 9-11. The US government, contrary to its own legal tradition, ignored any presumption of innocence. When al Qaeda head Osama bin Laden denied that his organization was not the perpetrator, the US, specifically the White House, demanded that Bin Laden prove that he was not behind 9-11. The same proving-a-negative tactic was used with Iraq: the US demanded that Iraq’s president Saddam Hussein prove that he has no weapons-of-mass-destruction. When no weapons-of-mass-destruction were found, the White House responded that the Iraqis were not telling the truth.

Furthermore, when Taliban leader Mullah Omar agreed to hand over the suspect bin Laden (who, as Griffin notes, is on no FBI wanted lists for 9-11) if the US provided evidence of his involvement in 9-11, the US never replied. The invasions-occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq are the outcomes.

Based on the evidence available (and especially the parties involved), Occam’s Razor leads me to dispense with the “official” 9-11 theory.

A Final Challenge

Pontrello challenges adherents of the “official” 9-11 theory:

Try this: the next time you walk a big city, gaze up at a massive building and picture a relatively small burning hole near the top of it. Then imagine it burning for an hour on only a few floors and then spontaneously pulverizing into fine dust before your eyes as if on cue. It took a few times for me to de-program my mind from the brainwashing, but once I did, it was liberating. I laugh now when I look at those three towers come down like that, and listen to the official story defenders try to explain pancake collapse as the explanation. I try to imagine what could make all the steel columns, joints, concrete and trusses simultaneously give way and allow for absolutely zero resistance from the otherwise intact structure below the point of impact. It is impossible and that is the truth. The only way those buildings fell like that was from controlled demolition and I don’t care what so-called experts say. I know what I saw, and I know what makes sense.

Griffin’s book is a good place to start for open-minded people who are critical thinkers. Who the perpetrators of 9-11 were is important. It would, for one, add impetus to cease the genocidal occupations in Afghanistan and Iraq. It would be a blow to Ziocon plans to aggress Iran. It would also lay the path for punishment of those individuals responsible for 9-11 and the subsequent warmongering based on the lies of the “official” 9-11 story. If the perpetrators were sufficiently punished, this might stand as a deterrence to others drawn by the corrupting influence of power and money. Even if it is no deterrent, it is a partial victory for justice in a world that sorely needs such victories.

  1. Sheikh al-Faydi To Al Sharq Al Awsat: ‘Losses by the American occupation forces have exceeded the 35 thousand dead’” Iraq-amsi, 19 July 2007. Thanks to B.J. Sabri for translation from Arabic. #
  2. Kim Petersen, “9-11: The Truth Matters,” Dissident Voice, 13 March 2007. #
  3. Manuel Garcia, Jr., “The Fall of WTC 7: Dark Fire,” Counterpunch, 28 November 2006. #
  4. Kevin Ryan, “Manuel Garcia Sees Physics That Don’t Exist,” 911Review.com, 27 December 2006. #
  5. Peter Webster, “Cockburn and his physicist friend abuse physics and credulity,” THS, 30 September 2006. #
  6. David Ray Griffin, “The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True,” 911 Review.com, based on speech from October 2005. #

Kim Petersen is co-editor of Dissident Voice. He can be reached at: kim@dissidentvoice.org. Read other articles by Kim.

103 comments on this article so far ...

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  1. Kevin Ryan said on August 29th, 2007 at 6:43 am #

    Nice article.

    Those who are just coming to these questions need to understand that we have been given multiple false stories in support of the fire-induced “collapse” hypothesis. And we have been given those false stories by people who work for the government, like Garcia, or those who benfit from the War on Terra.

    What hangs in the balance is, literally, a world of implications.

  2. John Halle said on August 29th, 2007 at 7:12 am #

    Kim,

    Can you provide a list of some of the 30,000 U.S. military casualties in Iraq whose names have not been reported by the DoD?

    I’m sure, many, most notably their families, would find such a list very useful.

    Thanks.

  3. jaime said on August 29th, 2007 at 7:44 am #

    No he can’t. Because there isn’t one.

  4. Kim Petersen said on August 29th, 2007 at 9:20 am #

    I do not state in the article that I believe in the 35,000 number. Skepticism to that number should be maintained and also to the approaching 4000 number.

  5. Abu Nurah said on August 29th, 2007 at 10:03 am #

    Kim, thank you for this excellent piece. I think too many are afraid of touching the subject for fear of being labeled conspiracy theorists. I commend you for pursuing the truth regardless of what the blind patriot establishment and others may think.

    Peace & Justice,
    Abu Nurah

  6. gerald spezio said on August 29th, 2007 at 10:50 am #

    Kim, I am a faithful reader and friend of DV. I respect you, your colleagues, and your work at DV. As always, the truth matters.
    I beg you to reconsider your stated claim about U.S. dead and wounded in Iraq based on B. J. Sabri’s translation of al-Fayyadh’s alleged assertion. I think that you have been taken.

    Two very basic assumptions are imperative before we waste too many of our precious brains cells in the age of rampant dis-information.
    1. The statement attributed to al-fayyadh is accurate and not a dis-information plant.
    2. Sabri’s translation is precise, and not a slick peeyar maneuver.

    Reasoning from the above premise, your position is TOO easily falsified. Although in all probability Jaime is a paid cyber typist for some arm of the Lobby, he is correct to pounce on John Halle’s simple empirical question. Jaime may have been waiting. It’s so easy to bark up the wrong tree at a racoon who doesn’t exist.

    Proceeding, as we must if we claim to be “doing science,” please consider that this entire “story” was glibly engineered in some Israeli peeyar whorehouse. This necessary hypothesis demands a totally different strategy.

    As you well know, the Israel Lobby is the most powerful and SUCCESFUL Lobby in the history of forked tongue mis-information. Indeed, the preposterous assertion attributed to al-Fayyadh and all Muslim scholarship is typical Israeli horseshit on its face.

    The Association of Muslim Scholars (read scholars) didn’t have enough good sense NOT to make such a hopelessly false and stupid categorical assertion - and in ARABIC NO LESS??? In ARABIC - for dissemination to the English speaking world. Requiring translation. Mais Oui!. THE STUPID ARAB BASTARDS DON’T EVEN KNOW HOW TO WRITE THEIR STUPID PROPAGANDA IN ENGLISH.

    The Rubenstein peeyar yuppies are everywhere.

  7. Michael Dawson said on August 29th, 2007 at 11:03 am #

    If you’re so outraged about all the lies, why don’t you focus on the real lie, which is the official claim that there is no connection between U.S. foreign policy and 9-11? People only have so much time and so much willingness to listen to the left. Every time you loonies talk about Building 7, you are not just embarrassing us, but also wasting time and attention that you could have drawn to the thing people need to know, but don’t: The real causes of 9-11, a.k.a. the long, bloody history of U.S. opposition to secular democracy in the Middle East.

  8. Binh said on August 29th, 2007 at 12:20 pm #

    I agree with Dawson.

  9. Binh said on August 29th, 2007 at 12:24 pm #

    Also, if the Army lost that many troops, the military would be in much dire straights recruitment-wise and from a manpower point of view than they are now.

    If American body counts of civilians/insurgents killed are wildly inaccurate, how could Iraqi body counts of American GIs killed be much better? AMA is engaging in wishful thinking on this question.

  10. Macu Naima said on August 29th, 2007 at 1:16 pm #

    Re: Jaime’s comment: “Can you provide a list of some of the 30,000 U.S. military casualties in Iraq whose names have not been reported by the DoD?”

    You forget two important facts: Once a medivac plane takes off for Germany, if any soldier dies in flight - his or her death is not entered in the list of KIA in either Iraq or Afganistan. The same is true if they die in Germany.

    The total might not be 30,000 - but it is much higher than the “fake numbers” we are being given here in the USofA.

  11. Robert B. Livingston said on August 29th, 2007 at 1:31 pm #

    Thanks Kim for breaking with the “left-progressive” mute and those that defend the Zelikow explanation of 9/11 which David Ray Griffin describes as a 571-page lie– even if that is simply to encourage public discussion which has been fettered almost six years.

    In another excellent book, Bush On The Couch by Justin A. Frank, M.D.– Frank notes a critical distinction between people who are willing to have a dialog, and to be uncertain about their conclusions– and people who substitute verbal tricks and false choices for the honest work of conversation.” pp. 131-2.

    To date I know of few exceptions among those we esteem on the political left (or elsewhere for that matter) to publicly debate with leading figures who do not believe the official explanations of 9/11.

    Unless they do, they put our peace and social justice interests in serious jeopardy just as they did in 2004 when many of the same fled debate and education and promoted Kerry.

    I would dearly love to hear leading representatives Noam Chomsky, Amy Goodman, Robert W. McChesney, John Nichols, Norman Solomon, Robert Jensen, Alexander Cockburn, Laura Flanders, George Monbiot, Matthew Rothschild, and Manuel Garcia defend themselves from the accusation that they are “Left Gatekeepers.”

    I suspect they are not, but rather that they are unwitting victims in greater and lesser degrees of a peculiar group-think that unfortunately has done more to add to the world’s woes rather than subtract from them.

    I believe they fear that by addressing questions about 9/11 they will divide and weaken the progressive left and endanger ongoing objectives they have labored for since prior to 9/11. I believe their concerns though valid, are benighted– because they assume that we are incapable of weighing evidence and drawing our own conclusions without their help.

    If their leadership is to continue to have any relevance– they must stop over-compartmentalizing the issues we face today. No matter how eloquent they may be about the high crimes of war, media reform, election reform, need for impeachment, global-warming, class differences, the Bolivarian Revolution, etc.– their credibility will be diluted and suspect among those of us who are connecting more dots than they are willing to consider.

    Every time Noam Chomsky introduces an argument with “As is well known…” we will shudder and ask, “Is it?”

    And naturally enough, 1) we will look for leadership elsewhere that is unafraid to promote truth, ask honest questions and demand honest answers– and 2) we will stop mistaking smoke for tangible achievement in advancing the causes we care about.

    Indeed, other than a consensus that the American political system is broken, what have we tangibly achieved in these past years?

  12. john polifronio said on August 29th, 2007 at 2:52 pm #

    At every juncture in this 9/11 maze, we find ourselves talking about where we ought to place greater attention and focus. But through all these discussions, the media always manage to escape adequate scrutiny, and any serious implication of culpability.
    jp

  13. Joshua Frank said on August 29th, 2007 at 3:33 pm #

    My biggest problem with much of the 9/11 truth seeking crowd is that so many of them believe, without a doubt, that it was an “inside” job. Griffin, of course, is the leader of this group, which in many ways seems to function in Jonestown-like hysteria when it comes to the event. Asking questions and demanding answers is one thing. Thinking you know all the answers about that day is another. Isn’t Griffin and co. guilty of the same thing that the neo-cons are? Mainly that they contend they know exactly what happened?

    Overall, as I’ve said to Kim Petersen before, this banter and inquiry (which I am guilty of participating in) is diversionary. By attempting to prove the unprovable (and we will NEVER prove anything about 9/11 that indicates Bush was behind it all) we are getting lost in a hay stack of questions so high that climbing out with answers in hand is becoming less and less of a reality. While we quarrel over the ins and outs of WTC 7, Bush and Clinton plan the next war. While Griffin writes his next tome, Palestinians are dying. While I leave this comment the State is planning to execute another black man in Texas.

    So my position, I hope, is clear: figuring out 9/11, regardless of intention, is a losing battle, and in the process much time and energy is exerted in the wrong direction. We have limited resources out here in dissident land, and we ought to use our collective strength in a way that puts the most immediate pressure on the war parties. 9/11 isn’t one of those ways. Let’s move on.

  14. springo said on August 29th, 2007 at 4:54 pm #

    Ah, my fellow Americans, it’s good to see you’re not all mindless zombies ….yet (rumsfelds aspartame and all the nazi propaganda hasn’t done the job). We know for a fact 9/11 was an inside job. Google “september clues” and WATCH THE WHOLE THING its the latest and greatest study concerning the events of 9/11. The media was complicit (psycological operations were employed there pre 9/11), this is why we don’t hear about it on the media, don’t expect to, but the cat is out of the bag, and the lie is coming down fast. Love your family do not fear the enemy, act quickly and diligently. Preserve the costitution, love your neighbors, protect the planet. This is how you will know you are on the right side.

  15. Joe said on August 29th, 2007 at 7:03 pm #

    Joshua Frank stated: “Thinking you know all the answers about that day is another. Isn’t Griffin and co. guilty of the same thing that the neo-cons are? Mainly that they contend they know exactly what happened?”

    WE only know for certain how it could not have happened. That implies a massive cover up at the very least. A massive cover up implies deception at the highest levels. WE have proof that it did not happens as we were told.

    The controlled false opposition is impotent without 9/11 truth and they like it like that.

    When you get serious about taking our country back you will understand us.

    “We have limited resources out here in dissident land, and we ought to use our collective strength in a way that puts the most immediate pressure on the war parties. 9/11 isn’t one of those ways. Let’s move on.”

    9/11 Truth might be the only way.

  16. simuvac said on August 29th, 2007 at 7:05 pm #

    It’s inspiring to see some people in the progressive media demonstrate the ability to reason without being bullied by state propaganda. If I have one reservation about your review, Kim, it’s that you focus almost entirely on controlled demolition, and neglect to mention the myriad other reasons not to believe the 9/11 story. Perhaps this is due to a lack of space (but, dude, you are the editor…).

    You say nothing of Griffin’s deconstruction of the debunker Bible, the Popular Mechanics book, nor do you mention the section on air defenses. You could note, for example, that NORAD generals perjured themselves, and that this is beyond partisan dispute (the 9/11 Commission chair and vice chair admit it in their book).

    What you have done is commendable, but an alternative media outlet such as this should be devoting story after story to this subject matter, dissecting the myth mercilessly.

    As to Joshua Frank’s lame contention that 9/11 skepticism is some kind of diversion, I must call bullsh*t. As long as the 9/11 myth is maintained, progressives will be powerless. 9/11 is the trump card that destroys reasonable debate on any subject. 9/11 is the myth that has sustained two illegal wars and countless domestic abuses. Nothing could be more important than telling the truth about 9/11.

  17. brian said on August 29th, 2007 at 7:19 pm #

    Lets be frank, Joshua…where 9-11 is concerned, your critical faculty has capsized. Your use of ‘Jonestown hysteria’ is itself an attempt to smear Dr Griffin, becaus he has what you lack: courage to investigate 9-11.
    9-11 Truth has no leader, because leaders tell people what to think, which is what YOU are doing. Griffin is a very articulate member of the movement.
    Your snide language alone is proof you have no interest in investigating 9-11, which you see as a diversion….well, 9-11 diverted people into supporting wars that have killed > 1 million people…Id say thats pretty important. More than the execution of one man in Texas!
    You and your kind are welcome to focus on the palestinians…a few more people wont make any difference. Indeed, what differnce ahve you made in affecting US policy on the palestinians? I’d wager nothing at all.
    But working on 9-11 truth IS having an effect..on the mass of people who like you were all to ready to believe the official conspiracy theory because it was official. Its not a losing battle…you wish it were….I could say helping the palestinians is a losing battle, when congress agrees to fund the Israeli military again with more US tax payer billions. Youve not prevented that.
    Griffin and the rest of us are not guilty of knowing the answers, just asking the questions.

  18. Arabesque said on August 29th, 2007 at 7:21 pm #

    A very well written article, and I appreciate the fact that you are willing to examine the issues without dismissing them. It is a documented fact that the World Trade Center Towers were specifically designed to survive plane crashes and jet fuel fires. For further evidence why the official story is inadequate, take the time to read what the building designers said about the World Trade Center towers surviving a plane crash.

  19. brian said on August 29th, 2007 at 7:25 pm #

    On 9-11, its nice to see this topic getting coveage on left wing sites. Something that unites Frank and the neocons is there alarm at this spread of intellectual dissent.
    Id like to add another twist to the 911 screw, and that is the role played by israel. on serpt 11 several israelis were caught laughing and hi5ing in sight of the burning towers.

    ‘Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents claiming “middle-eastern” men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery. (2)

    “They were like happy, you know … They didn’t look shocked to me” said a witness. (3)
    [T]hey were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. (4)’
    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html

    and:
    ‘The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smouldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture. (12)’

    which is very odd and damning behavior. Not only that, these same persons phoned the police and blamed the palestinians. Fortuntaely they were caught. Unfortunately the FBI let them go, where back in israel they claimed they were documenting the event….Howd did they know thered be an event t document? There behavior did not suggest shock and horror, but joy….
    911 Truth needs to confront this anomaly.

  20. Kim Petersen said on August 29th, 2007 at 7:27 pm #

    My esteemed colleague Josh Frank’s comments are most welcome. However, I respectfully disagree with a number of points Josh has made:

    1. That people suspend skepticism to any questionable information is something I would not advise. Still, people have a right to believe what they want. If 9-11 “truth” seekers want to believe “without a doubt, that it was an ‘inside’ job” that is their right. If some people want to believe that a man named Jesus walked on water that is their right, too. If some people want to believe, or not believe, in aliens that is also their right.

    2. The ad hominem reference to “the 9/11 truth seeking crowd” as “function[ing] in Jonestown-like hysteria” disqualifies itself. The 9-11 “truth” seekers are not, as far as I know, an official organization. There is much dissension among this “group,” (more correctly is groups) and even with views expressed by “leader” David Ray Griffin.

    3. Maybe “Griffin and co. guilty of the same thing that the neo-cons are,” but as far as I know, it is still referred to as a theory. That does not disqualify their right to express their theories, beliefs, or opinions. People do not seem to reserve the same disdain for the mendacious Bush administration expressing its views, and this strikes me as so odd and unbalanced.

    4. Even if 9-11 “banter” “is diversionary,” who are any of us to demand that people cease their inquiry into matters of interest or concern to them?

    5. Isn’t the statement that “we will NEVER prove anything about 9/11 that indicates Bush was behind it all” a belief, without a doubt? Does that not contradict a complaint made against the 9-11 “truth” seekers?

    6. How do you prove that there is “a hay stack of questions so high that climbing out with answers in hand is becoming less and less of a reality”? Even if true, people have a right to determine how they will expend their time and energies for whatever cause.

    7. True, Palestinians are dying, and racist injustice is planning to kill another black man in Texas. That the mandarins in Washington can act with such impunity, that some would shirk off investigating them on what could be their downfall (i.e., running an alleged false flag operation) seems to let the powers perpetuate their crimes.

    8. Investigating 9-11 may be, for some critics, “a losing battle,” but who is to determine what battles people should fight? People who espouse progressive values should rail against any inquiry being shut down, and that is what my articles are focused on.

    9. People may decide for themselves how they will invest their limited resources because when others decide then it becomes tyranny.

    10. I agree that solidarity is a must. Accordingly, I see attacks against the 9-11 truth seekers as solidarity busting. There is no reason that a progressivist movement must be monolithic on all points. Diversity is usually touted as a core progressivist tenet. So let’s not impose one groups’ views on other groups. A movement can pool its energies toward mutually agreed upon goals while respecting the rights that others to hold onto their opinions.

    To join the antiwar movement does not demand that people give up their other interests. The antiwar movement includes a wide amalgam of people, from environmentalists, socialists, religious groups, etc. There is no reason that 9-11 “truth” seekers cannot be part of the movement. So let us all respect the diversity among us and work together to defeat warmongers.

  21. Jon Carlson said on August 29th, 2007 at 7:27 pm #

    9/11 was a KISS project by the CIA, US Navy, and the Bush Administration. Send drone aircraft to four locations, crash them, and claim they were UA and AA airliners. Obviously the airlines were willing victims being paid billions in payoffs. Start your adventure to 9/11 truth here:

    Rare Photos Expose
    The 9/11 Flight 93 Hoax
    http://home.att.net/~south.tower/911Shanksville1.htm

  22. Joshua Frank said on August 29th, 2007 at 7:52 pm #

    Kim,

    1: With much respect, I never once stated that 9/11 theorists don’t have a right to their opinions. They absolutely do.

    2: I should have wrote “movement” (their term) instead of “group”.

    3: Again, I think Griffin has a right to his opinion. And I congratulate him on selling as many copies of his books as he has. It’s no easy task.

    4: It is my opinion that all this talk about 9/11 is diversionary. I would never say people don’t have a right to investigate these issues. They do. But personally, I’d rather see them investigating many other issues that seem much more important at the time. Mainly the crimes these nuts are getting away with now while we talk about events of the past.

    5: I hope that the 9/11 seekers of justice prove me wrong. I’ll bet the house on it that they don’t.

    6: Again, yes, they have the right. I never said they didn’t. My statement was an opinion.

    7: If this is truly a “movement” as they say, I’d rather see that movement addressing different issues. Issues that stop war. Issues that protect wilderness. Issues that save lives. Not issues that can’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, nor accepted by most Americans. If revolution (whatever that means) is ever to happen here we’ll need all the people who think lefties are nuts on our side. Moving past conspiracy theories would be a good start. Let’s focus on the crimes we know our government commits for FACT first.

    8: I don’t know what this means. We are always talking about direction of movements, where energies are expended etc. We all have input. That’s my input.

    9: Yes, they will decide for themselves. That doesn’t mean I won’t have an opinion about it.

    10: That’s fine if you think it is “solidarity busting”. I’ve seen the truthers in action, and frankly I wouldn’t want many of them on my side in the times that matter most. That’s my take. And I’m proudly NOT a “progressive”. So I tend not to abide by their tenets.

    I agree that the movement against the war includes many people. But let’s be sure: This is a movement against the war first and foremost. So let’s stick to that. There were enough lies that got us into this mess. I don’t think 9/11 seekers would question that. I’d like to see us focus on the lies that they are using right now to get us in to Iran. But, that’s my opinion. And it’s their right to jack off to Griffin if they want. I just hope it won’t hurt the resell value of his books.

    PS: I don’t know how “esteemed” I am. But I thank DV and Kim for allowing this debate to happen.

  23. Dwight said on August 29th, 2007 at 7:59 pm #

    Kim, thank you for this review of Dr. Griffin’s book, and for your defense of people that are concerned about 9/11.

    Joshua, your Jonestown comment reflects only your inability to address the facts. You remind me of Manuel Garcia in Counterpunch, who prefaced his ridiculous arguments on the destruction of the Twin Towers with insulting pop psychobabble. (By the way, Joshua, you mention WTC7, which was obviously a controlled demolition, but which did not kill people. What’s important is the rapid pulverization of the Twin Towers, where thousands died.)

    Brian, thank you for mentioning “September Clues.” The media broadcast false images on 9/11.

    http://www.livevideo.com/video/socialservice

    Not only are the images broadcast in real time patently false when viewed critically, the images broadcast later of a plane disappearing inside the South Tower, as well as the simulations of this impact done by Purdue and NIST, are also patently false because aluminum planes don’t disappear inside steel buildings–the destruction of the weaker aluminum means that the load is not transferred to the steel.

    The images used by the maker of September Clues come from these archives:

    http://www.archive.org/details/sept_11_tv_archive

    Mark Chrispin Miller, whom I greatly admire, is listed among the media experts that contributed to the September 11th Television Archives linked above. I have written Professor Miller to inform him that these images are false. I of course do not think he was aware of this when he lent his name to the project, and do not know what he thinks of September Clues.

    Professor Lynn Margulis recently stated:

    “9/11 [is] the most effective television commercial in the history of Western civilization.”

    http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/professors.html#Margulis

    I don’t know if she is aware of the emerging evidence of faked broadcasts, but she is right. 9/11 was not only a televised event. It was a television event.

    Finally, Jon, the planes were not “drones. ” They were false images, just like the false blips on FAA and NORAD radar screens. Drones are subject to the same laws of physics as regular commercial jets.

  24. B. J. Sabri said on August 29th, 2007 at 8:15 pm #

    In reading “The Puzzling Suspension of Incredulity to the “Official” 9-11 Theory” and the posted comments, I cannot but advance the following observation: a critical, rigorous analysis that raises reasoned skepticism over certain events to a higher level of awareness does not and should not beg for or need approval, probation, sarcasm, or rejection. And that what Kim did exactly: he pointed to facts, raised doubts, and let the readers draw their own conclusion while not seeking judgmental appraisals except dialectical rebuttals. Kim’s piece, therefore, was not an idle exercise on 9/11 but a call to distinguish between realty, crypto-reality, and elusive realty.
    Having said that, I must point out that some of the posted comments must be challenged as they do not only miss the cardinal point of Kim’s article, which is debating and re-debating 9/11 and its aftermaths, but also confuse the issue of event’s credibility by opening lateral skirmishes without providing substantive counter-argument.

    **** The case of John Hall: John’s question is cogent and legitimate. But, on the other hand, it is also shortsighted, irrelevant, and inconsequential. 1) Kim just reported on news coming from Iraq and asked the readers to consider the realties I have just mentioned. 2) Asking Kim to provide names is a puerile attempt to ridicule the fundamental question: did the US loose 3, 742 soldier or more? 3) Based on the lies of the Bush Administration, why cannot we challenge such a number? Did Hall include all US mercenaries in Iraq who obviously should be included in any body count? Did Hall include all green card holders from Latin America, Africa, and Asia? Keep in mind that when the Iraqis make their body count, they target the coalition as whole. 4) Does Hall think that the United Kingdom is about to flee Iraq because it has lost 158 soldiers in 4 1/2 years of occupation? Does Hall think that the United States is facing a strategic defeat in Iraq because of 3,742 soldiers?

    *** The case of Jaime: Jaime’s comment is worthless — no offense intended or implied. In his categorical assertion as in “There isn’t one…” he proved that self-obscurantism could be a personal choice and that dogma is the overriding ideological force.

    **** The case of Gerald Spezio: My friend, I did not take Kim or any one else for a ride; and my translation was not a slick peeyar maneuver. FYI: I just translated the artcile’s title correctly after sharing its content with Kim . The rest of the article I provided Kim with, was an instant translation by Google; but the Arabic text is reliable as far as it concerns the validity of information, and it comes from the highest echelon of the Iraqi Resistance. Besides, Kim is not that type who falls for spurious arguments, and had he decided that it was worthless, he would never wrote about a key passage, that is the American fatalities in occupied Iraq. Moreover, for us who read and try to understand, assertions could remain such, but their contextual validity could be open to dissection until proven false. Simply, we cannot and should not dismiss the prospect that, in fact, the US invading force may have indeed suffered that level of destruction. And why Not, if you disbelieve that Oswald was the sole killer of Kennedy without accomplices or other participants; and if you disbelieve that Jack Rubinstein killed Oswald just to avenge Kennedy; and if you disbelieve the story of the Administration why it invaded Iraq, then you should or at least try to consider that what the United States is telling us about Iraq is just crypto-reality coated in a million neocon shrouds.

    *** The case of Michael Dowson: with his, “The real causes of 9-11, a.k.a. the long, bloody history of U.S. opposition to secular democracy in the Middle East”, Dowson replicated Jamie’s ideological pattern to the T. and proved the hopelessness of right-wingers and ideological skinheads who do not know how to distinguish between all necessary elements required for comparative historical analysis.

    *** The case of Joshua Frank: Frank is an intelligent write and analyst. But while I will leave the bulk of his remarks to Kim to respond, I cannot let his following statement to go unchallenged

    Frank states: “By attempting to prove the unprovable (and we will NEVER prove anything about 9/11 that indicates Bush was behind it all) we are getting lost in a hay stack of questions so high that climbing out with answers in hand is becoming less and less of a reality. While we quarrel over the ins and outs of WTC 7, Bush and Clinton plan the next war. While Griffin writes his next tome, Palestinians are dying. While I leave this comment the State is planning to execute another black man in Texas”

    1) I do not think that Kim – in all of his writings – tried to prove the improvable. What As I stated, Kim’s approach was raising the threshold of doubt to the maximum suffocating level. This attempt goes beyond 9/11 and involves the entire imperialistic onslaught on the Arab and other Middle Eastern nations. Besides, who said that trying to prove something that is inherently difficult should dissuade us from trying? Did not the Pope order Galileo to confinement because he dared challenging the Church’s dogma on the Universe and gravity?

    2) Frank correctly states that we may never know the truth about 9/11. That may be so; however and hypothetically, should the United States fall as did the Soviet Union, many dirty US bags would begin floating around. Of course, considering the tenacity of US imperialism, that might never happen. However, speculating on and finding a logical but necessarily provable answer to our enquiries is a valid yardstick to investigate suspicious events.

    3) Frank then puts forward a bizarre proposal. He states, “While we quarrel over the ins and outs of WTC 7, Bush and Clinton plan the next war. While Griffin writes his next tome, Palestinians are dying. While I leave this comment the State is planning to execute another black man in Texas.” Well…What to say? Frank seems to prioritize…But this specific prioritization is void of any dialectical sense since the physical movement of current events should never overshadow the continuing analyses of antecedent events that determined and has been shaping the new events that Frank wants us to concentrate one unless he wants to suggest that we should postpone all discussions on 9/11 and Iraq and Afghanistan, and Somalia, and Sudan, until after this or that new event gets resolved first. Sorry, Frank, but past history and the history being written is one and indivisible, and — philosophically — it is like a time vector: it has a beginning but it always goes forward…Therefore, we have to tackle it at all times.

  25. Hue Longer said on August 29th, 2007 at 8:25 pm #

    Hello Josh,

    Another way to see it perhaps is that many people would never open their eyes to less “glamorous” crimes of empire, were it not for nine eleven (or JFK?). I feel disheartened (not saying you do) when I see Ron Paul supporters interested in this issue, while being completely oblivious or supportive to the root of empire and all of its little talked of, ignored or under reported crimes and agendas that would even allow for a conspiracy like this to occur…BUT, questions beget questions and little is unrelated, so I can see that at the least, fandom of the topic gets people closer to recognizing the ongoing thankless struggle of the bigger picture. I also think that even without confessions or official legal “proof”, critical mass could expose this thing –and regardless of what else deserves it, this sure as hell does. It is true that proving what didn’t happen is much easier than proving what did, but the fuckers have already been exposed on the former…I say, run with it you crazy libertarians!, and oh by the way, have you checked out, “Dimes Worth of Difference”? Good read!

  26. simuvac said on August 29th, 2007 at 9:14 pm #

    Joshua Frank writes: “I’ve seen the truthers in action, and frankly I wouldn’t want many of them on my side in the times that matter most.”

    That’s what this is really about. The gentrified Left wants to pick and choose its allies, and the often overly-speculative rabble that constitute the 9/11 Truth Movement aren’t the kind of people who make for good guests at cocktail parties. Sure, 9/11 skepticism attracts a few crazies, maybe many; a few have offered their adventurous theories on this post. But would you dissociate yourself from environmentalism just because a few “mother goddess” types and their bad poetry makes you feel uncomfortable? Are you really so shallow that you would approve of government opacity simply to disapprove of some uneducated twentysomethings who figured out 9/11 before you did?

    Sometimes I think that is what the Left aversion to 9/11 is really about: pundits like Frank don’t want to be upstaged by the Internet rabble. Chomsky actually said “who cares” if the US government was complicit with the 9/11 attacks. Who cares? That’s unconscionable. But guys like Chomsky used to be useful to us rabble because they could search the alternative media for tidbits of arcane facts and then stitch them together to prove corporate media collusion. Now, with the Internet, everyone can be a Chomsky. When people like Chomsky feel threatened, they cry out, “Conspiracy theory!” Or, “Who cares?” They take their toys and go home.

    Put aside the theories of controlled demolition and remote controlled planes, Mr. Frank. Put aside your pride, too. Just look at the 9/11 Commission and its report. The Commission was a demonstrable fraud packed with insiders and conflicts of interest. The executive director, Philip Zelikow, was a White House insider who authored the Bush National Security doctrine and co-authored a book with Condoleezza Rice. Every word in that report had to be cleared by the White House. Cheney and Bush wouldn’t even testify under oath. They met together, in secret, and without recording equipment allowed in the room. Shoot, Bush lied in public when he testified that he saw the first plane hit the tower before entering the Florida classroom (it wasn’t on TV until later that night). On and on we could go.

    If even half of Griffin’s list of “omissions and distortions” are accurate, and I believe they are, then the report produced by this fraudulent commission was equally fraudulent. Why does Joshua Frank find it so easy to dismiss government lies and opacity? Why does he support an obvious coverup? The Family Steering Committee wants another investigation, because 70% of its questions were not answered. Two-thirds of NYC residents want a new investigation, according to a 2004 poll.

    Why does 9/11 matter, Mr. Frank? Because people like you no longer demand a full accounting from their government; or rather, you demand an accounting of most things, but not of 9/11. People like you and Noam Chomsky throw their hands up and say, “You’ll never get the truth about 9/11, so why bother?” And people like you think that buying a Prius, or marching in a protest, or writing more columns about the profiteering in Iraq will actually change the system instead of simply curbing its appetite for a day. That’s where you, Mr. Frank, are wrong.

  27. yyyyy said on August 29th, 2007 at 9:15 pm #

    love you so much!!!!!
    xoxoxoxoxoxo

  28. simuvac said on August 29th, 2007 at 9:17 pm #

    One last thing: Notice how the disinfo loonies with their “TV fakery” and “No Planes” stuff flock to forums such as this one. That’s how it works, Josh. People such as yourself get scared when the disinfo loons show up. You don’t want to be guilty by association. It’s that easy to disarm your critical faculty, and it’s a shame.

  29. JE said on August 29th, 2007 at 9:36 pm #

    The real surprise with the truth about 9-11 being a cover-up is that anybody is actually surprised by it. I’ve heard people posit the notion that it was too intricate to execute and are government officials are too incompetent to pull it off. That assuming it was pulled off by the figureheads in government and not the shadow government (i.e. the CIA) that isn’t accountable to to congress or the President. It was most likely a false flag operation executed to justify the continued existence of the military-industrial complex.

  30. Christopher Pappas said on August 29th, 2007 at 9:56 pm #

    Josh,

    To put it another way: 9-11 has enabled a vast sector of the population to accept and condone an array of highly questionable, perhaps illegal, actions on behalf of defense. Wars have been initiated because of it, new wars are being promoted. Indefinite detention, torture, the de-funding of the public purse in the name of defense spending, domestic spying, TIPS programs, and so much more has become an “accepted” reality. 9-11 has created this acceptance, and support for the official story –which is, essentially, a proxy war on the imagination– and the dismissal of inquiry will do nothing but expand it.

    The truth movement seeks to disarm aggression and promote justice by reminding those who support the official narrative of this fact.

    For many people political consciousness did not exist before September 11th. Let us all remember what happened to that consciousness on on September 12th.

  31. JE said on August 29th, 2007 at 9:56 pm #

    “… guys like Chomsky used to be useful to us rabble because they could search the alternative media for tidbits of arcane facts and then stitch them together to prove corporate media collusion. Now, with the Internet, everyone can be a Chomsky.”

    Are you high or just incredibly stupid?

    1). Chomsky’s argument is not that it lacks significance but that it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things because obsessing over it is a bit like obsessing over the Kennedy assassination. People devote their whole lives to studying ever intricate detail of these incidents and to what end. That’s the argument. Get off your fatass, get out in the community and make a difference instead of believing that proving 9-11 was an inside job. Then what? The Bush cartel waves the white flag? Study history and you learn this type of shit isn’t anything new to the US government. Hell, we exterminated 8 million native americans. I don’t see an Native American Genocide Truth Movement sprouting up anytime soon. That’s the arugment and if you are going to attempt to refute it you had better at least represent it properly.

    2). The idea that everyone can be a Noam Chomsky is laughable. The man has an exceptional talent for analysis, he’s a linguist genius, and he has to be the most efficent intellectual at gathering data that you and I would NOT have access to over the internet to support his arugments. Beyond that he is (or at least was for a solid 40 years) by and large the best debater of any intellectual alive.

  32. John Brown said on August 29th, 2007 at 10:18 pm #

    Anyone who attacks 911 Truth on grounds other than factual accuracy and/or political tactics are making a prima facie defense of the Zelikow thesis.

    To every apologist for the official yarn - to every critic of 911 Truth: do you accept the findings of the Zelikow commission?

    “You’re wasting your time with this issue,” defenders say. “You’ll NEVER prove ANYTHING about that!”

    In other words, “just accept it.” Rather than seriously confront the evidence (a time committment of a few hours), we get vacilating defeatist contortions of the first order. Nevermind that 911 Truth exists within a larger political world. Nevermind the movement’s embryonic political critique. Nevermind anything that might matter materially in terms of our political struggle against Uncle Sam.

    What matters is what Fox News will say!

    One don’t have to agree with 911 Truth. But seriously: why tear them down in such a petty manner? It says a lot about the impotence of a super-sectarian left that cannibilizes itself. Because they’re afraid, they have chosen to alienate a group of people, mostly new to politics, who have become suddenly and radically politicized and more open to alternative political formations than ever before.

    911 Truth advances a political agenda in a tactically smart way. It offers a frontal attack against the last leg upon which Uncle Sam stands - His alCIAda story.

    911 Truth is the window into everything else. 911 makes every other piece of genocidal and barbaric savagery to which Sam’s been a part comprehensible. 911 helps to make clear how the genocide of New Orleans was exacerbated, at every step of the way, by Uncle Sam through the use of FEMA and other Killers for Hire.

    911 helps to make clear how the genocide of Iraq - the DU and the WP and the torture camps - came about.

    911 helps to make clear Uncle Sam’s Vanilla Justice, criminals run free political prisoners like Mumia Abu-Jamal languish in Concentration Camps on trumped up charges.

    An exposure of 911… not even an exposure - A DIRECT CHALLENGE against the Zelikow fiction has political relevance because of the evidence that exists and the importance attached to the findings. The singular fact that Uncle Sam won’t release any information hardly exonerates Him. Yet that’s what Mr. Frank and others would have us believe.

    They’re waiting on Uncle Sam to stand up and announce an ‘inside job’ plot. Once they have that, then they’ll believe it! Until then - stop with the conspiracy theories!

    In the meantime, let me shower you with flowers and sweets!

    Seriously: don’t become so terrified of being called names by Popular Mechanics and Rush Limbaugh that you refuse to contemplate the beneficial political consequences of such an act.

    Exposing the 911 ‘inside job’ with evidence makes everything else possible, because it takes away the enemy’s sole method of defense. People attack posts like this one because they fail to understand the dialectical movement of history.

    At least on the left, that really has to change.

  33. Hue Longer said on August 29th, 2007 at 10:32 pm #

    I agree to an extent JE, but whether it was pride (as simmuvac suggested) or something else, Chomski left his debating integrity on the jet when he he answered questions concerning nine 11 conspiracy in Europe. I loved his timeless debates with Dershy and Buckley because of his calm and strategic adherance to logic sure, but mostly becasue of the logic itself–which no man owns. Interesting that he would engage in such crass fallacy when he does know better.

    Here’s an issue…Michael Vick.
    Some principled animal rights activists are doing what they do despite most the attention and ridicule is only being leveled against Vick because he is a successful black athlete. And what about animal rights itself? Should I condem the cause because I find it petty or a waste of time in a nation of meat eaters? Not to mention (to borrow a point from simmuvac) the ranks of dim wits the movement attracts? Hell, the dimwits may know nothing about selective morality, but many seem to feel a true empathy for the animal at least and it’s not like they should be shamed into taking to the streets for “better” causes, WHEN IT’S UNLIKELY THEY WILL ANYWAYS…if you pitty them, fine…but let them act….would this not apply to “truthers”?

  34. robbie said on August 29th, 2007 at 11:45 pm #

    to JE:

    “chomsky’s argument is not that it lacks significance but that it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things because obsessing over it is a bit like obsessing over the Kennedy assassination. People devote their whole lives to studying ever intricate detail of these incidents and to what end. That’s the argument. Get off your fatass, get out in the community and make a difference instead of believing that proving 9-11 was an inside job.”

    if even 100 anti war generic liberal activists were worth the amount of activism that 1 single 9/11 truth activist was worth i would agree with your statement. Unfortunately the generic liberal anti war left has failed and has given their democratic leaders way too many free passes. It’s time for a new more passionate movement of young politically aspiring people to get the real work done. Getting to the truth of 9/11 and exposing the idea of false flag terrorism could have a very powerful and liberating effect on the American consciousness. If all we do is protest to end the Iraq war, what about the next war? Shouldn’t we make people aware that the propaganda to get them into war is usually always false, and that even 9/11 the myth we hold so dear is also a fairy tale used to get us into endless foreign wars? If the people are aware of this divisive tool, it can not be used any longer by the powers that be. Unfortunately most anti war and liberal ‘intellectuals’ think very short-term, they think ending the genocide in dafur and stopping the war in iraq (but not Afghanistan) are the best things we can do for our country right now. The JFK assassination wasn’t used as a tool to get us into a 100 year war with communists or muslims or anyone else. 9/11 whoever has given us the excuse to bomb and militarily invade any country that has dangerous weapons, harbors terrorists, and has even given the American government the excuse to wage war against the American people. Picking apart JFK is one thing, but getting to the truth of 9/11 and exposing the lies of it to the uninformed not important? I couldn’t disagree more.

    -Robbie

  35. gabriele zamparini said on August 30th, 2007 at 12:24 am #

    Excellent article and excellent comments from Kim Peterson

    Very well done Kim!

    Gabriele Zamparini

  36. Jimbo said on August 30th, 2007 at 12:42 am #

    I never come to this site but I just gotta say - I got 7 or so deep into these comments and am saddened at how little people actually read - she never said anything about believing the 35,000 number.. how can you not understand this? I think the quote was intended to nudge people into thinking “is the official number accurate?”…

    but this just goes to show how and why people believe the official story and do not think critically for themselves.. they get confused after the first paragraph.

  37. OilMonkey said on August 30th, 2007 at 2:57 am #

    Joshua Frank is tragically and frustratingly but not surprisingly the only discernible voice of reason on this page (as of the date/time stamp on this post).

    May a cure one day be found for the metastasized cancer of nine-eleven-fantasy.

    In light of the rapid and rabid onset of the disease, I expect Mr. Peterson will, in short order, excise all articles which explore global warming, climate change and peak oil — not to mention gravity and evolution — which feature a puzzling suspension of incredulity about the “official” theory.

    In the meantime, embrace the ju-ju everyone!

    ————-
    “What I have come to realize from my entire 9/11 experience, and also from the tepid reception of my ‘physics explanation’ articles (like New Orleans dikes) is that the public is basically irrational. It is ultimately pointless to worry about Bush and global warming and fascism and the rest, because they will always win. It has to be this way, because people are fully in the grip of fantasies they would rather die to preserve than become aware of factual reality. Those who do have some sense use it to manipulate the public mind for the benefit of the exploitative systems. We are doomed. When I began writing for a public audience, my naive technical idea was that if people understood the facts, they would move out of superstition, and we ‘all’ could agree on the nature of ‘the problem’ and then it would be almost obvious what actions to take to fix it. But, people live for their superstitions. We are no better than the caricatures of natives in 1930s jungle movies, hopping about in crazed deadly frenzy because of our ‘ju-ju’. That is what 9/11 conspiracies are, our ju-ju. As crazy a ju-ju as any of our fundamentalist religions (the non-fundamentalist ones are just clubs). So, it is pointless for me to engage in any 9/11 talk, because there is no other mind there to engage, just a ju-ju crazed being. I could make a lot more money writing ju-ju channeling flak for some neo-con outfit — but I hate those kind of people. Still, they’ll win, because ju-ju is better than sex. Global warming?, no problem, buy coal-burning SUVs to extinction; loss of Constitutional rights?, no problem we’re beating Islamofascism; no health insurance?, no problem, ESPN [sports] on plasma TVs is getting cheaper; no education? no problem, it’s free from the Army; it all doesn’t make sense? no problem, embrace the ju-ju!”

    ~ Manuel Garcia, Jr. (You Are Now Entering a Black Hole: 911 Emergency! Calling Robert Fisk!)
    ————-

    I proffer nutritious food for thought:

    ( http://tinyurl.com/2qzwyv )

    wtc7lies.googlepages.com

    Postscript: I find it laughable, to the point of “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up”, that Mr. Peterson invokes Occam’s Razor — inside the bubble of the conspiradroids’ consensus-trance-ju-ju — without a trace of irony.

    Manuel Garcia couldn’t be more astute if he tried: “there is no other mind there to engage”.

  38. Dwight said on August 30th, 2007 at 3:09 am #

    Joshua is resistant to the ideas that you and I share, Simuvac. He made all his points before I made my comment, and you don’t even know if he’s ever heard about the “TVFakery” arguments. He wouldn’t have seen it on the History Channel the other night, which doesn’t surprise me given that NBC News produced that show too.

  39. ConsDemo said on August 30th, 2007 at 3:13 am #

    “Certainly, the “official” 9-11 view is not scientific. It is a post hoc explanation designed to fit a preconceived agenda.”

    ROTFLAO! As if the crackpot conspiracy theories are! I saw planes fly into the building and the resulting collapse is perfectly plausible. On the other hand there isn’t one iota of evidence that the buidlings were brought down by a “controlled demolition.” The kooks advance this “theory” based on their hatred of the United States and then invent evidence out of thin air to justify it. People who have no background in science simply announce “it looks like a controlled demolition to me” and then cite a defrocked professor to back up their claims. Sorry folks, that isn’t evidence.

  40. Dwight said on August 30th, 2007 at 3:23 am #

    Joshua said: “Isn’t Griffin and co. guilty of the same thing that the neo-cons are? Mainly that they contend they know exactly what happened?”

    The official story and the bits of “evidence” offered in support are slim at best, and often patently absurd. People questioning 9/11 are acting quite reasonably, and “speculation” is not something to be ashamed of.

    The neocons you speak of are in positions of power and have far greater access to and control over information. There’s no comparison.

    I’d much rather be “guilty” of groping in the dark toward justice than of obstructing justice.

  41. Ben S. said on August 30th, 2007 at 5:17 am #

    While I think that a difference of 26,000 deaths of US soldiers would be a difficult thing to hide, I wouldn’t doubt that many hundreds of deaths were not counted. And certainly the number of Iraqi civilian casualties is grossly underestimated. Just to get the most outrageous and most discussed claim out of the way first….

    I appreciate that you published this article, and that you mentioned Griffin’s work, WTC7, and controlled demolition of the twin towers. Other anomalies surrounding 9/11 include Dr. Steven Jones’ research, including molten metal found beneath the towers, and his chemical analysis of metal spherules found within the dust that contained sulphur, iron, and other elements that would have resulted from the use of thermite in the towers’ destruction.

    Also, many researchers, including Webster Tarpley, have discovered and are researching 15 military drills that took place on 9/11, some of which moved fighters which would have been on alert protecting our airspace to locations as far away as Alaska. These drills can also be identified in NORAD or FAA tapes, when one member of NORAD in a call asks, “Is this real world or exercise?” The drills likely added to the confusion of our response, and for 15 major drills to be scheduled for that day seems to be quite a coincidence. What would be nice is if all of those, like Joshua Frank, who like to spend their time marginalizing the movement instead spent their resources and intellect on proving whether these coincidences–the drills, hijackers using only boxcutters, 4 hijacked jets getting past the defenses of the most advanced air defense in the world, the collapse of a steel framed high-rise due to fire happening not once, but 3 times in a single day, and on and on…

    What do you think would be the probability of all of these coincidences happening on a single day? I mean, really, we all have a sense of basic statistics and probability here, don’t we? And people like Joshua Frank think that we’re the ones participating in “Jonestown hysteria”?

    There are many groups of professionals researching this stuff: Scholars for 9/11 Truth, Pilots for 9/11 Truth, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Pilots, for example, analyzed the flight recorder data of the plane that crashed into the Pentagon–requiring more specialist expertise than you or I could have done–and found that at the point that it should have hit the Pentagon, the data shows it was 80 feet too high to hit it. The flight path does not match the physical damage of downed light poles, nor the eyewitness testimony of Pentagon police officers on the scene. They can’t get an answer from the NTSB on how the data obtained through FOIA could be so wrong. They deserve answers. So do the Jersey Girls, and Bill Doyle, and many other relatives of victims who have had their questions unanswered for almost 6 years now.

    So Joshua Frank believes that Griffin is the leader of this huge movement of “Jonestown hysteria.” That’s news to me. He’s certainly one of the prominent voices, along with Steven Jones, Webster Tarpley, Richard Gage, Alex Jones, Dylan Avery, and many, many other voices, with many different theories and varying levels of credibility. Griffin is definitely not who I would name as “the leader” of the movement. But you offer some perspective on how it looks from the outside, when you simply don’t understand the movement, nor care to, presumably.

    So why is the movement important? How is it any different from JFK? Well, if we had uncovered who killed JFK the day it happened, we would have identified a rogue group of individuals within our government. An isolated incident, easily explained away, some people put in jail, a bit more distrust of government, but not much would change.

    9/11 is different. If we discovered who really killed 3000 Americans on 9/11, we would have discovered that we have to fear our own government, that they are willing to kill us for their own political gain. Look a little further, and you realize that the war in Afghanistan was planned prior to 9/11. That the PNAC document in 99 outlined the goals of an American Empire. That governments have been killing their own citizens in false flag terror for decades, if not centuries. That the media is complicit, or apathetic. That they are not Our Media, and are incapable of performing the role the people require of them, of keeping the government in check. That everything has to change. Everything.

    One thing many of you voices of the Left (I’ll direct this at Joshua as he is one of them, and he’s here) have failed to recognize is the 9/11 Truth movement is much, much bigger than you have imagined. Do you hear kids on college campuses asking, “Hey, have you read the latest Chomsky book?” No, they are recommending 9/11 films like Loose Change to each other. This same movement, these same individuals, are some of the most likely people to recognize the loss of our freedoms from this administration. They’re the most likely to realize that the war in Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with protecting our country from terrorists, or WMDs, any of the propaganda. They’re the most likely to support a third party candidate, our only hope for a real change in government. They’re the most likely to actually “get off their asses” and protest. They do so on the 11th of every month. And if we are right, what makes you think that this government which has killed its own people, that this media which has ignored it, gives a damn about your environmental cause? What makes you think they care about any positive work you might be doing to improve the welfare of the Palestinians? Even if we are right, you expect us to “move on”? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? If we are right, and that same rogue network within our government perpetrated 9/11 as part of a much larger, empire-building, decades-old plan, and the media has done nothing to prevent or uncover it, the very first things you should be worried about are: 1) what do they plan to do next? 2) how do we remove them all from power, including those who we didn’t elect? 3) how do we stay informed now that the media is just another branch of government? 4) how do we get this apathetic populace to revolt, the only real check to government tyranny that history has ever shown to work?

    Until you confront this issue that many thousands of Americans and others throughout the world deem of the utmost importance, your voice and credibility will only diminish. People are ready to throw out the old media–that’s what has made this movement huge, regardless of the fact that from Sept. 12th on, old media has not given them a single bit of support. And we’re only getting stronger.

  42. Pete said on August 30th, 2007 at 6:04 am #

    Thank you for writing this excellent article on a subject that way too many are afraid to approach. Anyone who can take the time to look past the MSM spin and distortion of the events of 9/11, such as watching the excellent documentary 9/11 Press For Truth, will quickly realize that the official story is nothing more than a conspiracy theory that has very little evidence at it’s foundation.

    In order for us to move forward in a responsible and intelligent manner, we must know the truth about that day.

    Looking forward to continuing coverage of this critical subject.

  43. Leo Strauss said on August 30th, 2007 at 6:24 am #

    I must say I am dissappointed in Chomsky…when I saw the video where he stated something to the effect that it did not matter???

    Like many burnt out “activists” from previous generations I relied on Chomsky to wade through an ocean of minutia and distill the truth in a manner that was compelling and that “made sense”. Informed opinion.

    I expected Chomsky to rise to this important occassion instead I received an intellectual “smackdown”! Would it have “mattered” if we had known that JFK was killed by elements within our own government? It does matter… 911 truth gets right to the heart of the matter. It is the fountainhead of fear which has flooded our world.

  44. RJ said on August 30th, 2007 at 6:44 am #

    Let’s move on? Are you out of your freaking mind? Have you even read the 9-11 commission report ? Have you even read any of the solid refutations by Mr. Griffin?

    It’s sad but true, most of the 9-11 gate keeping fools are zionist pricks afraid of the inevitable backlash against jews when the story goes mainstream. Let’s move on my ass. I’ll never forget.

  45. Verbal said on August 30th, 2007 at 7:10 am #

    ConsDemo wrote:
    ROTFLAO! As if the crackpot conspiracy theories are! I saw planes fly into the building and the resulting collapse is perfectly plausible. On the other hand there isn’t one iota of evidence that the buidlings were brought down by a “controlled demolition.” The kooks advance this “theory” based on their hatred of the United States and then invent evidence out of thin air to justify it. People who have no background in science simply announce “it looks like a controlled demolition to me” and then cite a defrocked professor to back up their claims. Sorry folks, that isn’t evidence.

    It is very sad that someone who apparently doesn’t care about what happens in his own country accuses others of ‘hatred of America’.

    Perhaps trying to inform yourself just a tiny little bit might help, because ranting and raving like that with assumptions that are beyond the pale is utterly shameful.

    If you want to live in La La Land, that is your decision (if it is that) and your prerogative. But don’t try to bully people with other opinions, which are actually based on something more than seeing the planes fly into those buildings. It won’t work.

    V.

  46. Nunyabiz said on August 30th, 2007 at 7:38 am #

    Well as far as the number of US soldiers killed it is not 4000 and I doubt it is as high as 35,000, but what we know for a fact is that it is about 3X what the official government tally is.
    They only count soldiers killed ON the battlefield which is approx 4000, however 3X that many have died from their wounds in hospitals in Germany & the USA. That would bring the REAL death toll to around 12,000-15,000.

    As for the people here touting the “No Plane” hit the towers crap, please go away because you are seriously delusional or you are disinfo agents planting ridiculous straw-men to easily knock down by the Reich wing media.

    Kim, THANK YOU for having the courage and the intelligence to write this article, I can only hope that teh perpetrators of these treasonous acts are put on trial in the near future.
    Right now there are AT LEAST 120 Million Americans that suspect that 9/11 was an inside job and mind you that is even with a total media blackout of the truth, actually more than a blackout the Mainstream media is actively involved in blatant propaganda covering up the crimes.
    Yet still about 45-50% of the American public are now onto their lies.
    Sadly there are about 30% of the public that is totally unreachable completely brainwashed to such a point that no amount of irrefutable evidence will ever make any difference to them at all.
    So there is only a possible 70% that can even accept the truth, we have about 45-50% so I am wondering at just what point are we going to finally say ENOUGH?
    What needs to happen are at least 10% of those of us that KNOW what this administration has done, about 10-20 Million Americans need to start massive protest around all the various News outlets, start boycotting ALL of their sponsors and dismantle these clearly complicit media outlets exposing them for what they are.
    PURE REICH WING PROPAGANDA.
    Then IMPEACH Bush/Cheney and let the War Crimes & Treason trials begin.

  47. John Halle said on August 30th, 2007 at 7:49 am #

    To those who accept the following proposition:

    “While I think that a difference of 26,000 deaths of US soldiers would be a difficult thing to hide, I wouldn’t doubt that many hundreds of deaths were not counted.”

    I’m sure the families of these soldiers would greatly appreciate having confirmation about where their sons and daughters have disappeared to. Since you have little doubt of their existence, please provide us and them with their names, dates and places of death.

    It seems to me it is your moral responsibility to do so.

  48. Ben S. said on August 30th, 2007 at 8:03 am #

    @John Halle: don’t bother to quote my post out of context if you’re not even going to mention 9/11.

  49. Joseph Nechvatal said on August 30th, 2007 at 8:17 am #

    Very interesting piece Kim.

    However, I wish to know just what is conspiratorial about demanding a thorough impartial examination of that horrendous event on 9/11 – an event that has been used to justify illegal invasions and have destroyed two countries and killed tens of thousands of people?

    As someone mentioed above, Philip Zelikow, director of the 9/11 Commission, was a White House insider who authored the Bush National Security doctrine.

    Please read this book Kim, et al: Griffin, D. R. 2004. The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions, Olive Branch Press

  50. sijepuis said on August 30th, 2007 at 8:33 am #

    That articles covering anything having to do with the September 11 attacks continue to attract immense numbers of commentators of all stripes [Roberts Fisk’s recent article drew over 500 comments at a popular website!] points to the fact that world citizens — Americans and non-Americans alike, know they’ve been lied to, and they’re piping mad about it. This not a matter of a white lie or an omission, it’s a grave and massive cover-up of the causes of an attack that ultimately greased the slide to military action, leading to the destruction of two countries.

    I agree with Joshua Frank, in a sense. Fuss over the attacks consumes resources and brain power that could be applied to other, urgent matters. He cites Palestine and others. I would add Africa, the Congo [5 million souls massacred in the space of 4 years], Uganda, with deaths on a similar scale, and the wretched souls who are decimated on the shores of Lake Victoria.

    On the other hand, and as desperate and tragic as the plights of these peoples are, rather than focalising uniquely on “favorite” ongoing tragedies, the best way to prevent such things from ineluctable repetition is to identify and to address the underlying causes, the factors that lead to such atrocities. September 11 was merely a symptom of a grave and widespread disease.

    The overwhelming attention that continues to be paid to the attacks on the US unites people across the world, cross-culturally and irrespective of religion. — this is perhaps a ‘first’ in the history of human conflict, a wave of immense energy that ought to be channeled into a common cause, towards the identification and neutralization of the sources of international violence.

    So I recommend that we not knock the “Truth” movement or belittle its efforts, but enfold it into a broader, collective study of the true sources of our problems and how we might work together to change them.

  51. James said on August 30th, 2007 at 8:36 am #

    “You forget two important facts: Once a medivac plane takes off for Germany, if any soldier dies in flight - his or her death is not entered in the list of KIA in either Iraq or Afganistan. The same is true if they die in Germany.”

    That is completely false. If you die of wounds received in combat, you are counted as a casualty even if you die later. Due to superb medical care, it does not happen that often, but it does happen and any who makes the most minimal effort to research this will discover that this is an insulting urban legend.

    http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/

    Staff Sgt. Eugene H.E. Alex
    Died on September 2, 2006, at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Landstuhl, Germany, of injuries suffered when he encountered enemy forces using small-arms fire in Baghdad, Iraq, on August 30, 2006

    Staff Sgt. George T. Alexander Jr.
    Died at Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas, on October 22 of injuries sustained when a roadside bomb detonated near his Bradley fighting vehicle in Samarra, Iraq, on October 17, 2005

    Sgt. Ronald W. Baker
    Baker died October 13, 2004, in Landstuhl, Germany, of injuries sustained on October 7 when a car bomb detonated near his patrol vehicle in Taji, Iraq.

  52. gerald spezio said on August 30th, 2007 at 8:38 am #

    Mr B. J. Sabri, I was considering some mandatory hypotheses about who did what to whom. Coming forward, as you did, explaining that your translation is impeccable eliminates the hypothesis. I thank you, as I thank Kim.

    Here is a short and sweet piece of political wit about peeyar, surfboards, dis-information, and obfuscation. It will help us lighten up, but keep us focused on the Palestinians and Iraqis who are starving and dying. Once again, the Rubenstein peeyar yuppies are everywhere. http://www.counterpunch.org/nasser08292007.html
    Bravo to Richard Nasser.

  53. J porilli said on August 30th, 2007 at 8:53 am #

    To all of you who have doubts the real number of coalition death. I would like to point out that the are over 100,000 “Contractors” (foreign & American mercanaries –Blackwater et Al ) in Iraq and this are on top of the US’s 160,000 troops. The Iraq resistance has been very successful in against these guys. Many are foreign and their numbers are not reported by US military. I have been reading about these casulties for a while and I would suggest that 30,000 is probably a low estimate.

  54. Theodore Trout said on August 30th, 2007 at 10:01 am #

    The last seven years have been depressing in the extreme, as if one suddenly awoke the only adult in a world full of five-year-olds, all screaming,”because BECAUSE!”
    How anyone could witness the bizarre mid-air self-pulverisation of the WTC and not think “WTF? Who the Hell do they think is gonna buy this?”
    My God… it’s a planet of apes.
    And now: the spectacle of over-educated idiots decrying the obvious truth more and more loudly, trying to deny the onset of reality like Pincher Martin hallucinating his way around the grim spectre of Death.
    The fact is that these chimpanzees, typing away in an almost infinite number, missed the boat to begin with and have since magnified their uselessness to society exponentially with each passing day.
    They will all soon be out of work, perhaps even treading lava in the Lake of Sulpher, if Biblical prophecy is any guide.
    “Revolt, you thick-skulled idiots!” - Fritz the Cat

  55. robbie said on August 30th, 2007 at 10:29 am #

    i am shocked and very saddened that when you question the Bush admin on their story of 9/11 you get called a conspiracy kook, but when you question the bush administration on any other issue you get praised. I have no idea how liberals can give Bush a free pass on 9/11 but it seems to be a very common thread.

    you can quibble about demolition theories all day, but the fact remains that there was never a true investigation of what really happened that day. The 3 women that pressed for the 9/11 commission to even exist said that it was a ‘coverup’ and that they didn’t answer most of their questions. Anybody remember that Bush and Cheney wouldnt testify under oath and they needed to do it together??

  56. gerald spezio said on August 30th, 2007 at 10:34 am #

    Paisano Porelli, your point is right on target and received.

    Ditto for James. This is inescapably important, and I did not consider it. I do now.

  57. dwight said on August 30th, 2007 at 10:49 am #

    Nunyabiz, “no planes” is a bit misleading, as there may have been planes in the area. The point is that faked images of planes were broadcast, and plane debris was planted.

    You say the “Reich Wing media” could easily knock down this “strawman.” Why, then, didn’t they do so on the History Channel the other night? The show was produced by NBC, which is owned by GE.

    http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=16

    ‘Seems this would have been their big chance to show how ridiculous it is to suggest they broadcast faked images on 9/11.

  58. gerald spezio said on August 30th, 2007 at 10:57 am #

    Lawyer Zelikow, lead author of the 9/11 report, is a notorious Israel Firster and rabid Zionist. Another rabid Zionist and Harvard law professaor, lawyer Noah Feldman, was sent to Muslim Iraq to craft the new Iraqi Constitution. Lawyer Chertoff, mad dog henchman of the Israel Firsters and Zionist before all else, may be appointed as Attorney General. Chertoff will be charged with protecting us from high and low crimes and deception by lying scoundrels. We are a nation of laws with a Constitution, right?

    These lawyer boys are full of the law and live for Israel. Israel First!

  59. springo said on August 30th, 2007 at 1:46 pm #

    For anybody that hasn’t please watch september clues, on google video. I also wanted to point out that There was a grand jury indictment of George bush and Co. If you do a quich search yuo can find it on the web and it seems pretty good.

  60. John Brown said on August 30th, 2007 at 2:15 pm #

    Does anyone else notice how, as the vacuity of the Zelikow groupies’ argument becomes more and more evident, their rhetoric and name-calling gets louder and louder?

    We’ve moved from the simplified apologetics with an undercurrent of name calling by the likes of Frank to a much simpler strategy of vitriolic name calling marinated in stupifying ignorance.

    How much lower can they go to defend the indefensibile?

  61. ConsDemo said on August 30th, 2007 at 5:26 pm #

    “It is very sad that someone who apparently doesn’t care about what happens in his own country accuses others of ‘hatred of America’.”

    When you accuse this country of killing 3K of its own people on 9/11 ON NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, you are spreading hatred for the country. I’m sorry, Steven Jones doesn’t overrule the rest of the scientific community. He also claimed to have proved Jesus Christ came to North America. Like so many other conspiratoids he believes what he wants to believe .

    As for the Iraq War, granted it is a fiasco of monumental proportions. However, I’m hard pressed to see how they would keep 30K deaths a secret. Many newspapers have published the lists of the deceased. If someone’s son didn’t come back and didn’t appear on one of those lists, I think they would notice.

  62. B. J. Sabri said on August 30th, 2007 at 5:33 pm #

    Hi Gerald,
    First, I do not why the formality by calling me, “Mr.” BJ would perfectly suffice! Second, I understand your dilemma about how to confront and sieve information in the age of lies and deception; and whom to trust in the preliminary phase of evaluation. Do you know why I understand? Because most (if not all) of us face the same problem.

    In our present times, there is not one single source of information that we can consider trustworthy. That is why our job is to not only read between the lines, but also to judge the syntax of thought, the hidden agenda, evaluate the punctuation, the author and background, and million other things…

    In addition, I would like to remind you that in the current atmosphere of hatred toward the Arabs and Muslims, a majority of analysts including so-called progressives tends toward discarding any news or analysis that comes from Arab sources… The reasons are multiple and could be psychological (i.e. hidden prejudice), ideological, political, religious, or whatever. About reading news: read, for example, this piece of news (garbage).

    According to the Associated Press: “ UNITED NATIONS - U.N. weapons inspectors discovered potentially hazardous chemical agents in their office near U.N. headquarters that were probably taken from Iraq’s main chemical weapons facility 11 years ago, officials said Thursday. ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20514509/).

    Well. How would you read this nonsense? Why did UN inspectors store such chemicals in or near the UN building? Who ordered them to store them? Why after 11 years this comes to the surface? What to make of the timing? And what does the phrase, “that were probably taken from Iraq’s main chemical weapons facility” Exactly what does “Probably taken from Iraq” mean? What facility the writer had in mind? Why Iraq is again in the bull’s eye? Could it be that some one put these chemicals according to plan?was that all lie any way, and there were no chemicals whatsovere? Is it possible that the US still insists that Iraq had WMD to justify its invasion? Was Iraq the only country to possess such weapons that is why the given assumed “probability”? Because the answer is no, then why the imperialist AP points the finger to Iraq’s chemicals and no one else?

    Now I believe that I addressed the question that you and all of us have been asking: Can we trust the news we read? The answer as by Kim’s trademark: it is not a matter of trust; rather it is a matter of cogency, analysis, and a great dose of skepticism.

    Take care

    BJ

  63. free71 said on August 30th, 2007 at 6:16 pm #

    It is amazing that otherwise intelligent and conscious progressives can be so dismissive of the 9/11 truth movement. The Joshua Franks, Noam Chomskys and Alexander Cockburns feel as if focussing on who is really responsible for 9/11 is of no significance? Are you fucking serious?

    I guess they are. They’d rather deal with all the many over-reaches of the Bush regime and his fascist backers rather than kill the disease at its source. Now is the time. If we screw this up and allow the true perpetrators of 9/11 to escape unscathed after having realized their vision of instituting outright fascism in this country, then we all fucking deserve what we get.

    This US government insulted our collective intelligence in a big way(by getting most of us, including myself, to disbelieve what we’ve seen). They had full faith in their system of propaganda and control of the public’s perception using the mass media, and goddamit, this shit worked for a while. T