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	<title>Comments on: Oil Wars: Fueling Both U.S. Empire &#038; Ecocide</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-5769</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-5769</guid>
		<description>Erik pretty much nailed it.  Wars are fought over resources.  
Private businesses are set up to make money by converting resources into saleable goods &#38; services.  If they aren't allowed to do it then governments and the black market will do it (e.g. heroin, cocaine, communism).  If we don't work to secure our interests, we will decline in power and authority and another gov't, probably less benign will have their day in the sun.

The author's personal attacks on the current administration with negative pet names does not add to the scholarly attempt of this article.  You give no legal reason for impeachment.

In 50 years this chapter in US history will be a faint memory (Dick who?).    I don't advocate expansionism or colonialism, but we should not wait to be sucker punched again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik pretty much nailed it.  Wars are fought over resources.<br />
Private businesses are set up to make money by converting resources into saleable goods &amp; services.  If they aren&#8217;t allowed to do it then governments and the black market will do it (e.g. heroin, cocaine, communism).  If we don&#8217;t work to secure our interests, we will decline in power and authority and another gov&#8217;t, probably less benign will have their day in the sun.</p>
<p>The author&#8217;s personal attacks on the current administration with negative pet names does not add to the scholarly attempt of this article.  You give no legal reason for impeachment.</p>
<p>In 50 years this chapter in US history will be a faint memory (Dick who?).    I don&#8217;t advocate expansionism or colonialism, but we should not wait to be sucker punched again.</p>
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		<title>By: lastdregs</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4476</link>
		<dc:creator>lastdregs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4476</guid>
		<description>deadbeat, learn what reference and footnote mean. pretty well referenced but probably not written to satisfy your footnote requirement. and if this is "the lame diversionary explanation of  U.S. policy" (shall i footnote that for you?) then what is the truth. you dont offer anything than quick dismissal of this article. but really, dont bother, i bet you sound like erik, the apologist for continuing bad behavior despite the lessons to be learned from history. you guys wear nice shiny lapel pins or have any catchy bumper magnets on your SUVs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>deadbeat, learn what reference and footnote mean. pretty well referenced but probably not written to satisfy your footnote requirement. and if this is &#8220;the lame diversionary explanation of  U.S. policy&#8221; (shall i footnote that for you?) then what is the truth. you dont offer anything than quick dismissal of this article. but really, dont bother, i bet you sound like erik, the apologist for continuing bad behavior despite the lessons to be learned from history. you guys wear nice shiny lapel pins or have any catchy bumper magnets on your SUVs?</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Barth</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4368</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Barth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4368</guid>
		<description>Still some head in the sand (maybe there is oil under the sand!) deniers out there obviously, many of them politicians!

I enjoyed the article and many of its points. War needs oil, so 'we' fight for it! So true that many of the 'good' things could be accomplished using alternative fuels-food, human, wind, solar, tidal, etc.

I want a bike that also is a power generator, so if I want to watch the 'news' on tv I have to ride my bike!

We have become such fossil fools!

That is why I predict despite the talk of climate change and action, that 'we' will delude ourselves into oblivion!

Good luck all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still some head in the sand (maybe there is oil under the sand!) deniers out there obviously, many of them politicians!</p>
<p>I enjoyed the article and many of its points. War needs oil, so &#8216;we&#8217; fight for it! So true that many of the &#8216;good&#8217; things could be accomplished using alternative fuels-food, human, wind, solar, tidal, etc.</p>
<p>I want a bike that also is a power generator, so if I want to watch the &#8216;news&#8217; on tv I have to ride my bike!</p>
<p>We have become such fossil fools!</p>
<p>That is why I predict despite the talk of climate change and action, that &#8216;we&#8217; will delude ourselves into oblivion!</p>
<p>Good luck all!</p>
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		<title>By: jimbo</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4347</link>
		<dc:creator>jimbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 05:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4347</guid>
		<description>Isn't man supposed to be more mature now? Justifying what we are doing now by what we did in the past? Shouldn't we be learning from history? Learning from history tells us what mistakes were made then and not to repeat them now? Fighting for greed and oil is wrong. Resources are not infinite on a finite world. No footnotes needed to back that up. The growth paradigm must end for the same reason. The economy will have to work on a system not based on growth, this includes no population growth. Nature will impose this on us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t man supposed to be more mature now? Justifying what we are doing now by what we did in the past? Shouldn&#8217;t we be learning from history? Learning from history tells us what mistakes were made then and not to repeat them now? Fighting for greed and oil is wrong. Resources are not infinite on a finite world. No footnotes needed to back that up. The growth paradigm must end for the same reason. The economy will have to work on a system not based on growth, this includes no population growth. Nature will impose this on us.</p>
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		<title>By: lemonchiffon</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4329</link>
		<dc:creator>lemonchiffon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4329</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Prof. Brook for keeping up the good work of informing the public and staying by your convictions. As you have probably already read here in some of these comments, people want to rationalize their bad behavior even in the face of disaster. By saying "that's the way it's always been done," they are sealing the fate of all of us and not showing any concern for those who are paying the dearest prices right now or the unfortunate people who are yet to be born into this....some of them being their own offspring. 

If everyone does their own part and is open to learning what that can be, the world c ould be in a much better place. 

I am trying to model this for my students by not eating meat, taking mass transit for hours every day rather than driving, buying responsibly, watching my consumption of all products and saying no to spending unless it is absolutely necessary. 

My students have formed an ecology club and work out in their community to save resources. Their only obstacle has been adults who tell them that they are wasting their time and others that model all the negative things that are ruining the planet. But this is not deterring them...we adults could learn alot from kids about perseverence in the face of adversity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Prof. Brook for keeping up the good work of informing the public and staying by your convictions. As you have probably already read here in some of these comments, people want to rationalize their bad behavior even in the face of disaster. By saying &#8220;that&#8217;s the way it&#8217;s always been done,&#8221; they are sealing the fate of all of us and not showing any concern for those who are paying the dearest prices right now or the unfortunate people who are yet to be born into this&#8230;.some of them being their own offspring. </p>
<p>If everyone does their own part and is open to learning what that can be, the world c ould be in a much better place. </p>
<p>I am trying to model this for my students by not eating meat, taking mass transit for hours every day rather than driving, buying responsibly, watching my consumption of all products and saying no to spending unless it is absolutely necessary. </p>
<p>My students have formed an ecology club and work out in their community to save resources. Their only obstacle has been adults who tell them that they are wasting their time and others that model all the negative things that are ruining the planet. But this is not deterring them&#8230;we adults could learn alot from kids about perseverence in the face of adversity.</p>
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		<title>By: David Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4320</link>
		<dc:creator>David Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4320</guid>
		<description>A couple of hundred years ago people used animals, including other humans, as sources of energy for their personal comfort and well-being.  In addition, elements such as wind (windmills) and flowing water (waterwheels) were also used, especially in the laborious task of grinding grain.  Wood and peat were used as sources of fuel for heating. 

Then came the discovery of the steam engine.  This ushered in the "industrial age".

Coal and steel became prized commodities.  They provided energy in far greater quantities than any other source and in forms that were more convenient for use.  Hence the massive growth in technology and the division of the world into energy-technology rich countries and energy-technology poor countries.  Many of the latter had plenty of 'fossil' energy, but didn't know how to extract or use it.

The huge growth in wealth that followed the development of energy technology has been largely accumulated into the hands of relatively few people.

Of course wars have been fought for resources: land has been one of the major causes of wars.  That is how the Europeans took control of the North American continent (and used black human labour to do most of the manual work).  Now, a major cause of war (probably THE major cause) is for 'fossil fuel' - energy, power, the capacity to do work!  The politics of energy is now all-pervasive.  

Fortunately, there is a big catch in all this.  

Fossil fuels have accumulated in the earth surface over hundreds of millions of years from decaying vegetation.  The energy 'locked up' in these fossil fuels was captured by vegetation from the light of the sun.  In doing so, carbon was absorbed from the atmosphere and oxygen was liberated into the atmosphere.  This enables many new kinds of life, including humans, to appear here on earth.  Oxygen is essential to most forms of life because of the part it plays in producing energy.  [It reacts with hydrocarbons to produce carbon dioxide, water and ... ENERGY!]

So, when fossil fuels are burnt for their energy they also produce carbon dioxide, which floods into the atmosphere, and oxygen is removed.  Returning the hundreds of millions of years' worth of carbon back into the atmosphere over the space of 2 or 3 hundred years is creating a massive disturbance in the physics and chemistry of the earth's surface, especially as carbon dioxide is a 'greenhouse' gas.  Because of this, the increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide is causing the earth's surface temperature to rise.  This is the phenomenon of 'global warming' that affects the complicated physico-chemistry of the earth's surface that scientists really know very little about.

Although wars for fossil fuels brings death and destruction to millions of innocent people (including the poor rookies who carry the rifles), the effect of burning the fossil fuels will eventually bring death and destruction to most of the life on this planet.

That is where our greed and stupidity is taking us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of hundred years ago people used animals, including other humans, as sources of energy for their personal comfort and well-being.  In addition, elements such as wind (windmills) and flowing water (waterwheels) were also used, especially in the laborious task of grinding grain.  Wood and peat were used as sources of fuel for heating. </p>
<p>Then came the discovery of the steam engine.  This ushered in the &#8220;industrial age&#8221;.</p>
<p>Coal and steel became prized commodities.  They provided energy in far greater quantities than any other source and in forms that were more convenient for use.  Hence the massive growth in technology and the division of the world into energy-technology rich countries and energy-technology poor countries.  Many of the latter had plenty of &#8216;fossil&#8217; energy, but didn&#8217;t know how to extract or use it.</p>
<p>The huge growth in wealth that followed the development of energy technology has been largely accumulated into the hands of relatively few people.</p>
<p>Of course wars have been fought for resources: land has been one of the major causes of wars.  That is how the Europeans took control of the North American continent (and used black human labour to do most of the manual work).  Now, a major cause of war (probably THE major cause) is for &#8216;fossil fuel&#8217; - energy, power, the capacity to do work!  The politics of energy is now all-pervasive.  </p>
<p>Fortunately, there is a big catch in all this.  </p>
<p>Fossil fuels have accumulated in the earth surface over hundreds of millions of years from decaying vegetation.  The energy &#8216;locked up&#8217; in these fossil fuels was captured by vegetation from the light of the sun.  In doing so, carbon was absorbed from the atmosphere and oxygen was liberated into the atmosphere.  This enables many new kinds of life, including humans, to appear here on earth.  Oxygen is essential to most forms of life because of the part it plays in producing energy.  [It reacts with hydrocarbons to produce carbon dioxide, water and ... ENERGY!]</p>
<p>So, when fossil fuels are burnt for their energy they also produce carbon dioxide, which floods into the atmosphere, and oxygen is removed.  Returning the hundreds of millions of years&#8217; worth of carbon back into the atmosphere over the space of 2 or 3 hundred years is creating a massive disturbance in the physics and chemistry of the earth&#8217;s surface, especially as carbon dioxide is a &#8216;greenhouse&#8217; gas.  Because of this, the increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide is causing the earth&#8217;s surface temperature to rise.  This is the phenomenon of &#8216;global warming&#8217; that affects the complicated physico-chemistry of the earth&#8217;s surface that scientists really know very little about.</p>
<p>Although wars for fossil fuels brings death and destruction to millions of innocent people (including the poor rookies who carry the rifles), the effect of burning the fossil fuels will eventually bring death and destruction to most of the life on this planet.</p>
<p>That is where our greed and stupidity is taking us.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4313</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4313</guid>
		<description>" So are you telling readers here that the conquest of North America was for oil."

No, and neither is he.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; So are you telling readers here that the conquest of North America was for oil.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, and neither is he.</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4303</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 02:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4303</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah Max,  where are his footnotes.  So are you telling readers here that the conquest of North America was for oil.  Recall the author says that the U.S is "addicted" to oil wars.  That's a broad statement that is easy to disprove.

The problem with the author is that he is engaged in hyperbole rather than analysis and thus extremely difficult to take seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah Max,  where are his footnotes.  So are you telling readers here that the conquest of North America was for oil.  Recall the author says that the U.S is &#8220;addicted&#8221; to oil wars.  That&#8217;s a broad statement that is easy to disprove.</p>
<p>The problem with the author is that he is engaged in hyperbole rather than analysis and thus extremely difficult to take seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4302</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 02:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4302</guid>
		<description>The guys written upteen pages with upteen references - and you say it's 
too easy. Well it's too hard, apparently for some to understand that oil is the resource that makes the US empire go round. But as I read Dan Brooks's piece it's pretty clear that its not simply oil, its CONTROL of critical resources that has been the legacy of not only US empire but of world empires since the beginning of recorded history.

The US has been in the Middle East since the 1930s, with a growing presence as Britain's empire subsided and US demand for oil has grown expotentially.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The guys written upteen pages with upteen references - and you say it&#8217;s<br />
too easy. Well it&#8217;s too hard, apparently for some to understand that oil is the resource that makes the US empire go round. But as I read Dan Brooks&#8217;s piece it&#8217;s pretty clear that its not simply oil, its CONTROL of critical resources that has been the legacy of not only US empire but of world empires since the beginning of recorded history.</p>
<p>The US has been in the Middle East since the 1930s, with a growing presence as Britain&#8217;s empire subsided and US demand for oil has grown expotentially.</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4297</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4297</guid>
		<description>War for Oil?  I don't buy it.  Most of U.S. War were not for "oil" thus the U.S, even recent history, doesn't support the premise.  "War for Oil" has become too easy an explanation for U.S. Wars.    The breakup of the old Soviet Union has enable the U.S. to enter militarily where they perhaps would have used covert means in the past.  However the author's explanation is the same lame diversionary explanation of U.S. policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>War for Oil?  I don&#8217;t buy it.  Most of U.S. War were not for &#8220;oil&#8221; thus the U.S, even recent history, doesn&#8217;t support the premise.  &#8220;War for Oil&#8221; has become too easy an explanation for U.S. Wars.    The breakup of the old Soviet Union has enable the U.S. to enter militarily where they perhaps would have used covert means in the past.  However the author&#8217;s explanation is the same lame diversionary explanation of U.S. policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Crass</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4295</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Crass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4295</guid>
		<description>I got about three paragraphs into this before the avalanche of puns caused my eyes to roll into my brainpan. Thanks a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got about three paragraphs into this before the avalanche of puns caused my eyes to roll into my brainpan. Thanks a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4291</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/oil-wars-fueling-both-us-empire-ecocide/#comment-4291</guid>
		<description>Maybe you never opened a history book, but every war ever fought was over resources or political power of one form or another. 

so-called "oil wars" are no different, and if it wasn't the US doing it, then it would be someone else. 

Bringing up body and dollar counts in "the big game" is like worrying over the amount of nails that went into a completed house. You think anyone cares how much money or lives were spent during WW2? We talk about Iraq as if it is some kind of new atrocity. In terms of lives lost it isn't even a blip in time. 

Guess what: there are bigger things than any of us as individuals. 

No one will even give a shat about Bush or Iraq in 1,000 years.  It'll be a forgotten war waged for forgotten reasons by an empire of the past.

Take a breather. If your a US Citizen then you should be on board. How else are we supposed to support our extravagant lifestyles? You know all that limousine liberalism and tofu vegetarian goodness costs money. You think a chinese laborer can afford your lifestyle?  Stop the self-pity and arrogance. We are no better or any different than the human civilizations that have been over the last 3,000 years of written history. 

We are the Roman Empire of our time. Bottom line, and not something we need to feel sorry about. 

Just one Dissenting Voice.    ; )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe you never opened a history book, but every war ever fought was over resources or political power of one form or another. </p>
<p>so-called &#8220;oil wars&#8221; are no different, and if it wasn&#8217;t the US doing it, then it would be someone else. </p>
<p>Bringing up body and dollar counts in &#8220;the big game&#8221; is like worrying over the amount of nails that went into a completed house. You think anyone cares how much money or lives were spent during WW2? We talk about Iraq as if it is some kind of new atrocity. In terms of lives lost it isn&#8217;t even a blip in time. </p>
<p>Guess what: there are bigger things than any of us as individuals. </p>
<p>No one will even give a shat about Bush or Iraq in 1,000 years.  It&#8217;ll be a forgotten war waged for forgotten reasons by an empire of the past.</p>
<p>Take a breather. If your a US Citizen then you should be on board. How else are we supposed to support our extravagant lifestyles? You know all that limousine liberalism and tofu vegetarian goodness costs money. You think a chinese laborer can afford your lifestyle?  Stop the self-pity and arrogance. We are no better or any different than the human civilizations that have been over the last 3,000 years of written history. </p>
<p>We are the Roman Empire of our time. Bottom line, and not something we need to feel sorry about. </p>
<p>Just one Dissenting Voice.    ; )</p>
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